40/29 News’ Tiffany Stewart recently was allowed to follow the Fayetteville Police Department as officers patrolled the Dickson Street area one evening. The report aired this weekend and twice referred to a “darker side” of Dickson while showing footage of a few kids who’d had too much to drink and were being arrested for public intoxication or disorderly conduct.
To be honest, I just shook my head and nearly forgot all about it … until this afternoon. As I was skimming through some Twitter messages, I noticed that The Morning News’ Skip Descant was covering today’s Advertising and Promotion Commission discussion which was centered around the future of the Walton Arts Center. “Gazolla questions the safety of the Dickson St. area as one deciding factor when considering where to locate a new performance hall,” read the message.
He was talking about A&P Chairman Pat Gazzola, who also happens to be the owner of the very popular (and very delicious) Catfish Hole restaurant out on Wedington.
According to the Morning News’ offical story on today’s meeting, Gazzola’s actual quote was this:
All I know is this, there are a lot of folks who consider the (Dickson Street) area not all that safe as a place, who want to bring their families. People don’t want their families around people who have had too much to drink.
I was surprised to see the second mention in as many days regarding a possible “unsafe” atmosphere on Dickson Street since, as a musician and writer for the Flyer, I spend a good amount of time in the area and have never gotten the feeling that it was a “dark” place to be. And no, I’m not always enjoying adult beverages when I’m there. Sometimes I’m working.
As far as families are concerned, I don’t have children of my own, but even when the area is at the wildest it can possibly get before or after a Walton Arts Center performance, I still haven’t experienced anything that would make me feel like I couldn’t bring a child along with me to an event there.
I figured there’s an off-chance that I am still somehow completely oblivious to all this supposed “darkness” so I went out this evening and asked a half dozen Dickson Street bartenders and bouncers who spend more time in the area than anyone where exactly this “darker side” is located. Is it on the far east side? The west side? Is it up that creepy staircase next to 21st Amendment?
Those I asked weren’t of any help. In fact, the overall impression was that such a side does not actually exist. So I put up a poll here on the Flyer but as of 11pm, 89% of our readers also say there’s no such atmosphere on Dickson Street. The same general sentiment is echoed on our Facebook page where one business owner even seemed confused as to what era we were referring to.
I re-watched the 40/29 segment and this time, I caught an even more confusing quote from a local police officer who was speaking of the minor incidents that had been caught on camera that evening:
It creates a bad atmosphere – an unsafe atmosphere. People see that going on and they don’t feel like they can come down here and enjoy themselves
Had I caught that the first time, I’d have been a little more proactive in my curiosity. Apparently some people are confident enough about this “unsafe atmosphere” that they’re willing to talk about it on camera and bring it up in public meetings but even after 25 years of living in Fayetteville, I still don’t have a clue as to what they’re talking about.
So now what? I suppose there are plenty of more things I could do. I guess I could spend more time talking to employees and patrons or more time trying to find those who are scared of Dickson Street or more time talking to people who don’t drink alcohol but what I’m led to believe is that time is what we don’t have a lot of as far as the Walton Arts Center is concerned.
So if this “dark” and “unsafe” atmosphere on Dickson Street actually exists, we need to stop talking about it and start fixing it. But if it doesn’t, maybe we should be more responsible when describing the possible future location of one our city’s biggest and most valuable attractions. Especially right now.
So tell me, Fayetteville. Do you feel unsafe on Dickson Street? If so, now’s your chance to speak up. You’d be surprised to know who all reads the Fayetteville Flyer these days…
[Photo by thapgood via Flickr and Creative Commons 2.0.]
I recall something about the area Matt Jones being arrested in was a known place for drug use and sales. I think it was somewhere in the 300 block of Dickson. Reports like these can easily skew the public perception of an area.
My husband and I may not be the best parenting examples out there, but we have always felt comfortable taking our children to dinner and WAC during the hours when children are generally out and about at night. I suppose that at 2 am, after a football game night, Dickson may be inappropriate for children, but that is different from unsafe. I might feel unsafe walking away from Dickson late at night, but not walking on Dickson. Drunken men encountered in an empty parking lot or side street are more intimidating than when encountered in a crowd. I believe Fayetteville needs to be careful that Dickson doesn’t become a bar district only. I think that the addition of more retail and family oriented restaurants will help balance the concentration of bars along the street. Keeping the business mix, mixed can help keep Dickson a place everyone is comfortable.
Thanks for writing a piece about this. I saw the segment about officers on Dickson Street, since my husband is an FPD dispatcher and had a special interest in it.
I think it is *somewhat* accurate to characterize Dickson Street as an unsafe place to be, but really only on heavy bar-going nights (Friday & Saturday). And I think what makes it unsafe is the very small number of people that become aggressive when they are intoxicated or who drive drunk. However, this is going to be the case anywhere that there are a large number of bars in close proximity.
I think a better way to characterize the problem might be “annoying.” I am not a partier, and I definitely try to avoid Dickson Street on weekend nights because the traffic and the drunk people drive me crazy! But that isn’t necessarily dangerous, it’s just aggravating. And so, I avoid it. Easy enough.
What may be the concern here is that a more family oriented facility isn’t appropriate for that location, considering how it gets on the weekends. Would you want your child to see a drunk person vomiting in the street or getting arrested for fighting? That’s what the dark side is. As young adults we accept this as normal, but some people find it unacceptable. It’s all about your perspective.
Just some thoughts. I understand the “dark side” comments, but also understand your arguments against it. I think it is an issue that requires more investigation if it’s really a business concern.
This comes down to a cultural divide. Like you said in the article, people who don’t drink. People who eat at the Catfish Hole, go to church, and stay away from places where people will have been drinking.
There’s no convincing them that drunk people can also be quite sweet.
An “unsafe” area is an area where a person’s physical safety is in question, random crime is somewhat common and a person takes on risk by simply going there.
Beale Street? Sure.
The French Quarter? Yes.
Dickson Street? No fricking way.
How often are people actually crime victims on Dickson Street? When was the last time someone was shot or stabbed or mugged?
I know a couple of muggings happened around the downtown area last year, but it turned out it was the same group of crazy kids doing the deeds. They were caught and I haven’t heard of one since. And those didn’t happen on Dickson Street.
Dickson might be “dangerous” compared to Elkins or West Fork, but its probably one of the safest real entertainment districts in the country.
I’m amazed when I hear people refer to Dickson like its some seedy area.
Good job on this article!
So, okay a few guys get drunk at a bar at the end of finals week, But that does not make it the “darkside” Geez.
Couldn’t you FOI the police reports on Dickson vs. other areas of town? Eliminate the public intox reports and I would wager Dickson probably has lower totals.
Fantastic article, and I will say… as one of the girls (a brief glimpse of us around 1/3 of the way through the segment) interviewed as a witness by the police after an altercation on Dickson Street I not only feel completely safe there, I am absolutely shocked that there are people who feel unsafe on Dickson Street. I honestly feel that 40/29 sensationalized violence in our town in order to make their story more interesting, and that’s downright sad, not to mention very irresponsible reporting.
I’ve lived in Fayetteville nearly my entire life and I feel completely safe here, in fact… I’d be willing to say I feel safer on Dickson Street by myself in the middle of the night than I do in parts of Little Rock or Memphis in the broad daylight. In my humble opinion, one of the finest parts of our little town, is that in many ways… it is still little. Even in this report, the “darker side” they showed was a few 20-somethings fighting late at night… as a mother I’m not concerned about taking my kiddo to a show at the Walton Arts Center, or even to have a slice of cheesecake at Common Grounds afterward. There is simply no violence that happens on Dickson Street (in what I’ve experienced over the last 10+ years) that would serve as a threat to us in any way.
To say that there is a “darker side” to Dickson implies something far more sinister than drunken college kids picking fights with each other. 40/29 showed a very biased report which I pray will not further impact the downtown businesses already working hard to get through these tough economic times.
Tsk tsk, 40/29… Absolutely not ok.
Those Missouri cult members holding the YOU’RE GONNA BURN IN HELL signs seem unsafe to me. I feel like they could just snap at any second and go on a throat-slitting rampage in an attempt to “purify” the streets before the second coming.
Perhaps the people who consider Dickson unsafe haven’t actually been there since the 80′s. Now THAT was a seedy stretch of concrete.
I’m not a partier (don’t drink at all) and have young children. I live a block from Dickson Street. I feel absolutely safe. Sure, I’ve had to explain to my kids why some moron was yelling obscenities, but I’ve also had to explain to them why a mother was screaming at her kid and calling him names at a park. Honestly, it’s easier to explain the drunk guy.
If there is a concern that Dickson may be unsafe, I don’t think moving the WAC is the solution. That is assuming the goal is solving the problem instead of segregating it. It doesn’t do anyone any favors to ensure that Dickson become a bar district only.
Dixon Street is a string of small-town midwestern bars with all of the good and bad things that you’d expect.
Far from seedy. you can’t even smoke in most of the joints on Dickson. I feel like for a district to even be in the running to be considered seedy, there has to be a cloud of smoke all over it. That’s just me. I didn’t see the piece on 40/29, but I have to wonder what initialized the story in the first place. Did they just want to do a “Cops”-esque segment? Had they heard that Dickson St. was actually getting scarier/dark?
It sounds to me like they just wanted to do a segment about the FPD and ended up getting some good footage of an atmosphere that people who don’t go out at night might find frightening. Fear mongering, folks, gets attention. 40/29 is a business first. Let’s not forget that.
Those who do go out regularly probably laughed at the drunken frolicing seen in the the report. I completely agree with chris c; it is a philisophical debate. A “cultural divide.” Some people’s boundaries are tighter than others. My advice falls in line with what Lisa Sharp said; keep the businesses diverse. If kids continue to be around Dickson St. and parents do not fall into the “fear”, I guarantee people will behave themselves a bit more than if there were never any kids to be found down there.
Can’t say I’ve ever felt unsafe on Dickson or when walking to a parking lot a block or two off Dickson.
It is amazing what small town news stations will turn into stories sometimes. Just watch the local news for any extended length of time and you will see all kinds of stories that are not interesting, not news, or something sensationalized to try and be news. The fact that these stations have nothing to report on regularly is proof that Dickson is a safe place. If it wasn’t, there would be no reporting on how Dickson is a “dark” place. Instead, they would be reporting on specific incidents of “dark” deeds.
In addition, I am not surprised people think Dickson is a “dark” place. I would expect those who don’t like drinking or pre-marital sex or anything along those lines to think Dickson is a bad place. There is no way they would want to take their kids around such an atmosphere in fear of them being corrupted and tempted by Satan’s evils. Just because these people don’t have beards and aren’t carrying a large piece of poster board doesn’t mean they aren’t a little out of touch.
This is ridiculous… Dickson Street “unsafe”? “dark”? Hmmm, let me say that I have lived a couple blocks off the square for over 5 years now and throughout this time, when I go to Dickson, I walk home… even late at night and have NEVER felt unsafe. Sure, there will always be isolated incidences that occur regardless of what goes on in “that area”. Dickson is a great place to meet for business meeting (yes, I do this often), it’s a great place to meet friends, whether we’re enjoying beverages or not…, it’s just a great place to go and yes, I take my son often… BUT also during appropriate hours. I don’t understand why little children are down there after 9pm but it’s not because it’s unsafe but rather that should be the time the family is home, and getting their children in bed… Okay, so I got off subject a little. Dickson is a wonderful, SAFE place and it’s a great thing for Fayetteville.
Is there ANY area in Fayetteville one could consider unsafe? I can’t say I’ve walked somewhere and thought ‘I’m uncomfortable here.’
I live two blocks south of Dickson. I walk home after work (I work near there), sometimes late at night. I walk to and from Dickson Street, sometimes at 2 a.m.
I don’t feel like I need to check over my shoulder and be worried about who is following me. I’ve lived in several places where that is absolutely the case.
Never here.
So silly. Go walk the red light district in Amsterdam after midnight. Or cut through an alley, in the French Quarter.
I slept in the grass behind Dave’s on Dickson once! The only harm that came to me was a mess of chigger bites in some unspeakable places.
Anyone ever been to the Rivermarket in LR? Totally different “crime” vibe than Dickson. Last I checked, Dickson St. didn’t have a rash of aggravated robberies (2007 – at least four in the Rivermarket) or Fayetteville PD wasn’t having to shoot suspect vehicles that were dragging their fellow officers down an alley (Right by Block 2 Lofts 2009). Not to mention the breaking and enterings (plural) in the new parking deck, the poorly lit parking area under the interstate exit, and panhandling just across from the statehouse convention center. I’d trade Dickson for the Rivermarket in a heartbeat.
As someone who lived between Dickson and the Square in the late 1990′s and again for the past couple of years, I can say that this is a safe area. I have walked home many times by myself after the bars close (I’m female). I have never had my car broken into or been harassed. Sure, I’ve heard of a couple of isolated incidents over the years, but that is to be expected when you have that many people in one place.
It is just plain irresponsible for the newspaper and the tv stations to report on the “darker side” of Dickson without telling the full story and the actual crime rate. Remember, sales and ratings come from hype and hysteria. We need to hold our local news reporters responsible and not let them feed this type of tabloid jounalism to the public.
I am a native of Fayetteville. My parents went to college here. I spent various parts of my life growing up on Dickson Street from eating at ROTC to spending time in the coffee shops and comic stores (when there were some actual shops on Dickson) and living and working within blocks of Dickson for 5 years. I don’t think Dickson Street is unsafe in comparison to many urban areas or even other areas of Fayetteville. I’ve walked along those streets in many different instances and states for work and for pleasure and I’ve rarely felt unsafe, more than needing to be aware of my surroundings. Safety improvements to the area could include better street lighting on West Mountain, West Center, and the areas in between the H.S., the UA campus. Any instance I’ve heard of theft or violence on or around Dickson street is related to people coming INTO our town for events or for the weekend. There have been muggings on the bike trail under the library by transients and muggings in some of the darker alleys directly off Dickson Street. Better lighting can mitigate this but we can’t build a wall around Dickson. I agree with Lisa Sharp, if the city wants to make Dickson Street “safer” it needs to encourage businesses other than bars to set up shop along the area. This means working with the building owners to lower the rent for the buildings and fostering more diverse business along the “strip” and in other properly zoned areas. There’s a reason why bars and restaurants have taken over Dickson Street: it was fostered by the city’s agenda for economic development, but instead of fostering a sense of community, the old administration valued increased cash flow into the area in the form of alcohol/food sales. It’s pretty ridiculous that the media is jumping on how “unsafe” Dickson Street is when, in the past, the city economically encouraged the type of behavior seen in the area (drunk college kids and visitors from dry counties). All they need to do to make it “safer” is add better lighting to the surrounding area and foster diverse business activity.
Shame on 40/29 for making this an issue. Disgusting, sensationalist journalism. Recklessly irresponsible.
Can anyone truly say they don’t feel safe on Dickson? Have to agree w/ some posts above. The only people who would say they feel unsafe are those who don’t like alcohol consumption in any form. It’s an easy (although unjustified) argument against it.
I enjoy the duality of Dickson. I take my daughter down there often. Not to the bars, but to the WAC, Smiling Jack’s, Common Ground, etc. And sometimes if daddy has the night to himself I might enjoy a tasty adult beverage and a band. Never ever ever ever ever have I felt unsafe. Silly.
@Todd – Don’t walk up that staircase! It leads to the 12th dimension of hell. When u get to the top u are instantly transported to the karaoke seat at “You know?? Uno!!” and u can’t leave until completing a heartfelt rendition of “Dancing Queen” by Abba.
hahah. This is absolutely hilarious.
First of all, the only time I have ever seen chaos (fighting, blasting obscenities, etc) on Dickson are extremely late at night. What “good” parents would have their children out at that hour? Honestly? Most WAC activities/shows are over at a descent hour.
This is a college town. Drinking does occur. But these same people may also have an interest in what is going on at the WAC. Drinking does not make someone any less of a person. This “rant” is uncalled for. I have never felt “unsafe” around Dickson St. I moved here from Little Rock and have never felt safer, when going out and about. Let’s take all these people who call Dickson “unsafe” or “dark” and throw them in the middle of downtown Little Rock at about 10 p.m. – 2 p.m. After that, we’ll talk.
Yeah, it looks like 40/29 wanted to make an episode of COPS, but all they got was a couple of drunk frat boys. Dark, indeed.
A TV report is produced to contrive a controversy, no controversy not story. Dickson street is the heart of Fayetteville and people have been trying to turn it into a sanitized zone free from the things that make it fun, loud music, bars, etc… The TV station womps down a story about a public intox story. Ooo Im scared.
It’s all a ploy to get the WAC moved to benton county…you know…god’s designated spot for holiness.
As a bar owner in the Dickson Street area, I’d like to thank Todd for coming by and asking my opinion.
Nobody from 40/29 came by.
The only arrests that have happened outside the smoke & barrel have been because of people taking drinks out front or mouthing off to the police. Neither are a good idea, but neither reveal a “darker” Dickson.
In the 5 months we’ve been open, we’ve had about as many arrest. Compare that to the hundreds of people coming in on the weekends, enjoying themselves, then going home unscathed.
We appreciate and respect the officers on the Dickson St. beat. We give them coffee, bathrooms, and, occasionally, a place to hide from obnoxiously advantageous women. Grant, who was one of the officers interviewed, is a great man who has always greeted me with a handshake and a smile.
For every person we’ve seen them arrest, we’ve seen them send at least twice that many home in cabs, or friend’s cars.
As for 40/29, the question the Flyer should look into is who owns it? Do they live in b-ville?
Could they benefit from the WAC moving?
And finally, is anyone really surprised that a local station in a small town resorts to fear-mongering?
Fear keeps you tuned in. Fear makes you buy things.
Being afraid of something that doesn’t exist is a lot easier than dealing with the problems that do.
Kudos to the flyer, and to it’s readers, for refusing to give in to blatant sensationalism.
I have been going to Dickson St. for 6 years and have never really thought of it as having a “dark side” unless I count Bikes, Blues, & BBQ, then it is a dark side. Of course there are going to be a few idiots who have to much to drink and get carried away and get into a fight or exchange words but there has never been an actual violent crime that involved weapons (as far as I am aware).
I like having the police presence on Dickson St. It makes me feel safer and provides the atmosphere that Dickson St patrons are going to be protected.
[...] Fresh Foods. Slam some poetry. Slam some fresh foods and for the sake of contributing to the new atmosphere on Dickson Street, slam some adult [...]
I live a few blocks off Dickson and have no problem with it. If it’s a dark and scary place, I’d think my house would be included in that area, being so close. Am I scared? Heck no. It’s not a deserted, seedy area where you’ll get snatched up because no one sees you. It’s a thriving, populated, well-lit street where people go to have fun. These people are silly, and I can’t wait to find out whose strings were behind the story.
A question that comes to my mind is this: Who would benefit from distorting public opinion regarding the safety of the Dickson St. area? Certainly not those that wish to see the Walton Arts Center remain where it is, rather than moved to another area.
I have frequented Dickson St. for years, with and without my children, and now a grandchild. There is no darker side there. In fact, for a “party” spot, it is a uniquely safe, friendly and stress-free place to be.
If anyone is attempting to paint it in a darker light, I strongly question the politics (and corporate influences) behind such ideas.
Dickson Street is like home! I have never felt unsafe or even scared for a second being near, on or walking to a bar on Dickson. There was a time during Springfest or Autumn Fest that I would allow my son and his friends to ride skateboards up and down Dickson street while I par took of libations at Georges – Along with all the other parents of the kids running up and down Dickson. If you are concerned that it is not an appropriate place for your child – don’t have them there at inappropriate hours.
Heart disease. High blood pressure. Diabetes. Obesity. The dark side of dining at the Catfish Hole. Catch the exclusive at 10 o’clock, here on 40/29.
@ five by five – Waaaaaaahahahahaahahaaaaa!!!!
Gazzola should step down from the A&P Commission.
A person who is charged with helping Fayetteville retain the WAC may have just given BenCo the ammo it needs to justify yanking it away.
What a complete dumbass.
All I can think is that stupid MFer thinks we can keep the WAC in Fayetteville, but move it to Paula Marinoni’s property at Wedington and 540.
He probably believes that is a “win-win”.
Which would, incidentally, drive business to the Catfish Hole.
Sadly, I’m probably right.
five by five wins.
I agree with those who question the motives behind this story… I find it quite convenient that Dickson St. has a “Dark Side” all of a sudden while they are considering moving the WAC. Though, I think Dickson has a mark against it just for having so many bars… you cant count the arrests at all the other bars in NWA as happening in a concentrated area because there are no other areas with so many bars… not to mention the close proximity of college students. I cant say I’ve been to ANY bar that didn’t have a few arrests over time, especially later in the night… when “families” really don’t have any business being out in that atmosphere.
Compared to other areas I would consider seedy… Beal St, Bourbon St., heck, even Garrison Ave,… Dickson is a wonderful place to take your kids. But not at 2am for the love of god! There are no shootings, muggings, etc… that make an area dangerous. There are no panhandlers, crack dealers, or prostitutes that I think people generally associate with “seedyness”. There is no major problem with vandalism (aside from some public urination), car break-ins or lewd conduct that should make anyone take notice. I’ll take drunk & disorderly college students over crackheads and rapists any day.
I think the Police may have been caught up on the wrong side of someones motives… law enforcement is a mandatory part of any area like this… but can have a pretty biased view of what an area is like. Take someone who likes to have a good time on Dickson vs. a cop that works the night shift there… ask them what they saw on any given night and I think anyone could predict you’ll get two completely different opinions. And nowhere in any of the “news” coverage of this “growing” problem does anyone mention growing crime trends, etc… just some random quantities of incidents with no comparison to other areas, etc…
Sure, there may be some traces of atmosphere that may deter the kind of patronage the WAC is trying to attract. But lets be honest, there are no shows that let out at 2am… the crowd from 6 to 10pm is pretty tame. After 10pm, Applebee’s probably has plenty of drunk and disorderly issues.
One thing that I think is a much more pressing issue for Dickson as a whole, including the WAC, is parking. The current parking situation precludes many businesses from opening up there… and makes planning WAC events difficult. Anyone planning to open a business on Dickson has to weigh this in their decision… and given the large amount of people congregating at times not conducive to anything other than drinking, the obvious choice is a bar. If the WAC didn’t have to compete with the bar scene for parking, this would be a better situation for all establishments on Dickson.
Though, if the Walton Foundation is hell bent on taking the WAC back to BenCo, let them… the theater is not going anywhere. And I don’t think Fayetteville is going to let it go to waste.
I will never watch 40/29 again, nor will I ever again dine in the catfish hole in the ground. The A&P commission is worthless self-serving assholes.
40/29 is a freakshow of paralyzed facial muscles, glass eyes, and teeth falling out on air.
Their cast looks like they walked off the set of the Star Wars bar scene.
I don’t know how anybody can watch their “news” as it is.
Hell, even Channel 5 is more aesthetically appealing. Darren Bobb’s chins may jiggle, but at least they don’t seize up, spasm, or fall off while he’s talking.
What no one seems to be mentioning is: if a new WAC facility is built in Bentonville, just how many ticket-buyers for a larger 2400 seat theater do they think are going to drive from Fayetteville to Benton County? ‘Scuse me, but not that many. This is a remarkable flaw in logic!
Drunks on Dickson don’t scare me, fundies in Benton County scare me…can we please not let the cultural landmark of NWA move to that hell hole?
Thanks for starting this discussion, Fayettevittle Flyer.
It’s always frustrating when you see a news report that pushes a point (Dickson might be unsafe), but appears to not provide a second contrary voice when it is clearly evident (Dickson is safe). 40/29 should have provided deeper contextual stats that allow the viewer to see more than a night of public intoxication arrests and potential drunken arguments with throwaway numbers like 600 arrests last year by the Dickson Street patrol and a $250,000 price tag to police the area.
I found it also interesting in a editorial written by the Northwest Arkansas Times in November 2007 that Pat Gazzola, a member of the Fayetteville Advertising and Promotions Commission and owner of Catfish Hole, was described as pleased that the commission’s meeting was not videotaped. He later said he was joking. He may have been, but even casual remarks by those in positions of authority are dangerous.
That editorial goes on to state that the noon meeting likely did not comply in a timely manner with Freedom of Information Act notification requirements so The Press didn’t know about it. That’s not a smoking gun, by any means. A failure to notify can happen from simple human error and oversight, but it always raises red flags when it does, especially when $131,000 local dollars are given away at the meeting.
That’s really the whole reason for the FOIA laws, to keep the public in the loop when their money is being spent.
As quoted in The Morning News and affirmed in tonight’s KNWA story, Gazzola stood by his assessment that Dickson is unsafe and the Walton Arts Center would be better served by moving closer to I-540.
Looking at this Google Map of the proximity between the Catfish Hole, I-540, the Walton Arts Center and Dickson Street, it again raises red flags as to why this would be said now by someone the public trusts to promote Fayetteville.
Sorry, the link to the map – http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=101796516213794577834.000469c2f6d863ecc1bb0&ll=36.094332,-94.16914&spn=0.076291,0.192089&z=13
Who’s willing to send a letter to the editor about this?
Or you can call the news director for KNWA and ask for an oppositional piece. (479) 571-5100 (ask for the news director)
Or you can email the news director for 4029 and complain: newsdirector@4029tv.com
[...] anyone’s willing to brave the darkness, there are some things going on around [...]
@5X5 “Heart disease. High blood pressure. Diabetes. Obesity.” I thought you were reading Pat Gazzolla’s medical records.
I used to walk with the dinosaurs down Dickson in the ’70s and ’80s when it was supposed to be really scary. I even saw some people with tattoos, but it was pretty tame even then. The Whitewater shooting of 1982 was a random shot fired from a moving car through a frosted glass window, not anything like a premeditated murder.
The real scary part of town back then was west of the bypass. I think the bouncer at Club West killed a couple of people, and Ralph Baker supposedly kicked some ass out there. I stayed in the safety of Roger’s Rec and the D-Lux, the Bull’s Eye Pub and the Library Club. Nice places, unlike the hoity toity, fru fru, fancypants hangouts for big spenders you find there now.
Gazzola’s part in all this has a shady stench to it. It’s not too hard to connect the dots. He should step down from the commission. He is either distorting the truth for his own personal gain or grossly misrepresenting the town he is supposed to promote.
Also, is Wedington/540 an actual option for the new WAC location? This is the first I’ve heard of this. Thought it was Fayetteville vs Rogers/Bentonville.
[...] party problems” If you missed our editorial yesterday, you might be wondering what all this talk of an “unsafe” Dickson Street is [...]
Even if Gazzola’s motives are pure, something of which I’m not entirely convinced, it’s pretty stupid of him to state an opinion, devoid of facts, that could have very real consequences (i.e. give the WAC another reason to move). As a member of the Fayetteville Advertising and Promotions Commission, his job is to promote Fayetteville’s business and commercial entities, not to participate in fear-mongering faux “news” stories. His involvement in this situation is disappointing, to say the least.
I’m with Matthew Petty. We need to send letters to the editor if we want our voices to be heard.
If anyone’s interested, this post has been viewed over 1000 times in just one day. Your voices are certainly being heard. At least on the internets.
Wedington/540 hasn’t been officially mentioned, but Gazzola seems enamored with a 540 adjacent location. If that is to be in Fayetteville, Wedington/540 is the only real option without tearing down buildings. It also helps the restaurant/real estate market just across 540, which includes…CATFISH HOLE!
Marinoni wants her land to go for something other than strip malls, and I applaud that. It was discussed at one point as a possible location for FHS.
I am admittedly connecting a lot of dots with that comment, but when something as irresponsible and inaccurate comes from a city official, there are a lot of dots left to connect.
Gazzola should resign, because its obvious he doesn’t have Fayetteville, or downtown Fayettevile’s best interests at heart.
I was also wondering if it was just coincidence that The Catfish Hole is just across the bypass from the spot on Wedington that Gazzola seems to be rooting for.
In just a quick skimming of your article, and from an objective viewpoint miles away in Memphis (we are well versed in unsafe here), it seems to me that Gazzola, as chair of the A&P is in a sweet position. Launch a campaign deeming Dickson Street unsafe, and relocate the Walton Arts Center near his eatery. Smart ruthless businessman? Yes. Good citizen & neighbor? No.
We did a piece on KNWA and Fox News Edge last night that looks into this very issue. We interviewed Mayor Jordan, Chief Tabor and a Dickson Street Owner on camera. We also met up with Mr. Lane at the Walton Arts Center (off camera), and spoke with Pat Gozzola over the phone. http://nwahomepage.com/content/fulltext/?cid=88552
correction — Gazzola
Agreed
“LawHog
Drunks on Dickson don’t scare me, fundies in Benton County scare me…can we please not let the cultural landmark of NWA move to that hell hole?”
Gazzola, I am your father!
Anyone who thinks Dickson is dangerous has never been to some “down town” areas of LR, or Pine Bluff!
Twitter was all a blur with this topic last night. Hilarious. Great followup report by KNWA.
Dear 40/29: That was a completely irresponsible piece of “reporting,” and we – your potential customer base – know it. Whether you did it out of short-sighted sensationalism or for financial manipulation, it was a stab it the back to this community. Oh, and the 80’s called; they want their wardrobe & hairstyles back.
Dear Mr. Gazzola: Shame on you. You’re obviously running your mouth due to stupidity or greed. Whichever the case, shut up. I’m sure you and/or your buddies have some peachy property you’d like to sell near the interstate, but if the WAC starts moving up 540, it’s not going to exit at Wedington. Oh, and sometimes greed can cost you; I’m pretty sure you’re going to lose some business because of this—starting with mine.
Dear fellow Flyers: (besides Gullett’s Gourmet on Friday nights,) where can a brother (or sister) get some good catfish?
[...] “darker side” of Dickson Street? On the Fayetteville Flyer the community is discussing the recent coverage by 40/29 of the “Darker Side of Dickson [...]
@five by five MAMA DEAN’S!!! and Cafe Rue Orleans!
I watch KNWA. Good job Bradley.
Alex Flippin gave me a big hug one night at Buster Belly’s.
It was the highlight of my winter.
The WAC should sh!t or get off the pot.
The building would still belong to Fayetteville and there are plenty of names that could go on the side of it, i.e. Blair, Reynolds, etc.
So go ahead and move to a dry county and hold your receptions there.
It’ll probably go over as well as a fancy art museum.
Let’s chip that old broad off of the bench and move the f@ck on.
Oops, almost forgot–
Dear Mayor Jordan: Kudos for speaking up in defense of your community. Now, as a concerned citizen, I’d like to pass along a cost-effective (partial) solution to the parking issue: Utilize the freaking parking deck at the library! 1) Slap up a couple of street lights on West; 2) turn on the deck’s lights; 3) make it part of the FPD’s downtown patrol. Presto-changeo, you have a public parking deck. This would take a bite out of the parking ‘shortage.’
(admittedly, this is SO simple, there must be a catfish-sized hole in my logic)
BCC: Hellz yeah I like how you think. The WAC people keep hinting that they “may move”. Well, tells us what it takes to keep you, or leave already.
5×5: Great idea. Perhaps, since people don’t like to walk, they could put a jitney in service on thurs-sun nights. Make the loop from Library to WAC (or whatever we rename it when they put it in a field in Benton County) up locust, back down Rock to the library. Its a 5 minute loop.
RE: KNWA
Dan Skoff’s new haircut looks awesome. At times, I’m almost gay for him.
Neile needs to lighten up on the boobcancer crap. Its a good cause, but its gotten very very tiresome. Otherwise I find her to be cute and very nice.
Weekened weatherman Dan Ashley is good. I wish he’d find his dog. It makes me sad.
Courtney Timmons is hot. I wish she would be on there more.
Pat Doney does a fine job. He’s going to be a great sportscaster someday. Aaron Peters is pretty good, too. My favorite sports team by far.
I wish they would run the “Dan Skoff, the Jimi Hendrix of Weathermen” ad on KNWA. I know they did it for Fox, but its a great one.
As a former employee of Walton Arts Center, I heard many, many accolades for Dickson Street, the Downtown Square and Fayetteville from performers and crew of the visiting productions. These people, in turn, tell people all over the world about Fayetteville, Arkansas. Current staff from the Walton Arts Center maintains many great relationships with previous performers and crew because of the hospitality of Fayetteville. Those heartfelt and true comments are exactly the kind of generosity our community wants/deserves out there in the world.
Hi all,
Jodi from the WAC here. I just wanted to let you know that we listen in and really appreciate conversations like this, regardless of your opinion. It’s exciting that so many people care about our future.
One clarification:
The feasibility study that came out last year didn’t recommend “moving” the Walton Arts Center. It recommended expansion – adding new facilities in addition to the ones that are already on Dickson Street. The Board and Staff are reviewing those recommendations, and since we don’t yet know what our programs look like for the future, there’s no way to know the location of these “yet to be built” new facilities. But we plan to be busy and active on Dickson Street for a long time to come.
If you like to read more about the feasibility study, check out this page on our website: http://tinyurl.com/ptdwb2. It’s got our recent press release about our new CEO, the report from the feasibility study, FAQs and more.
Thanks,
Jodi Beznoska
Communications Director
Walton Arts Center
PS: I almost forgot to mention how much we appreciate the FPD and all of the people who work so hard to keep Dickson Street a pleasant and safe place. Thank you!
As a member of the arts community and downtown resident, I have never once felt unsafe on Dickson Street and can’t understand what all the ridiculous hoopla is about.
Remember in the eighties, when “Dickson Street is dangerous!” helped destroy a cultural neighborhood and replace it with an arts district (better known as “the Big Block o’Booze”)?
Well, Dickson Street is at least as dangerous as it was in the eighties. Probably more so, since there are a lot more bouncers and other vigilante enforcers hanging around.
Jodi we don’t concern ourselves with details like “facts” and “first-hand information.” We prefer to wildly speculate and jump to conclusions. It’s really more fun that way.
Seriously though thanks for the info. I think there has just been a lot of uncertainty and frustration around this issue lately and the whole 40/29-Gazzola thing touched a nerve. At least people care. That’s a good thing.
ddp gallery – It’s good to hear the positive feedback from the performers/crew. We’re not an angry mob. We just want our arts dammit!
@Jodi
Thanks for the clarification and comments! We love the WAC!
Follow them on twitter: @walton_arts
Yeah Jodi, thanks.
I doubt you’ll find the kind of support of the arts in Benton County that we have in Fayetteville. In fact, I know you won’t.
Imagine! The Moron News doing a hit job for Benton County elites.
Say it ain’t true.
Anyone ever check the PO-Leese records for where most violence and drunken arrests occur in Fayetteville? Not Gozilla, not The Moron News.
I think Billie Starr cleaned up Dickson decades ago. That’s what one club owner told me back in the depressed 80s. Had to make it fittin and nice for the Arts Center. Dive joints are out. Over-priced hamburgers are in. It’s a marriage of Wall Street and Woodstock. Rock your heart out.
.
@ddp gallery. Good point. I’ve enjoyed the company of showgirls on Dickson after shows, and I hope I made a better impression on them than what they’d see at a Benton Co. Arts Center. Namely, the same things you’d see landing at the Benton Co. airport–cows. I know it’s a thrill for some city folk, but…
I think I finally agree with all, all, of the rest of you too. Gazzolla got to go. Nine years of serving himself (no cow pun intended, but okay, the XXXL fits) on the A & P is plenty long enough, and this greed/stupidity outburst is more than enough for Mayor Jordan and his fellow A & P Commissioners (except Comrade in Arms Insurance Bob Davis–who buys with our burger tax from his own insurance comany for the APC–ask him to leave too, please) to ask for his resignation. He was appointed by Chainsaw Fred Hanna people back in the 1900′s, for God’s sake. I was at that meeting when he was shooed in over Free Weekly publisher Susan Porter. Who has been a better ambassador for Fayetteville, before and since?
Denigrating Fayetteville to sabotage the future of the very things he’s ostensibly appointed to Advertise and Promote (A and P) is so inexcusable it is treason.
His recent actions have solidified his disgust with Fayetteville, where people drink alcohol (woo, scary). Didn’t he have a catfish hole in the ground not far off I-540 near Mountainburg before he sprawled here?
Go back the way you came, Fat.
Oh please, anybody who thinks Dixon St. is “unsafe” should take a stroll in the red light district of Amsterdam…. or even closer, Tijuana, Mexico.
No place on earth is 100% safe, but for anyone who knew Dickson Street and the area back in the late 70′s – you would have to admit it’s now like night and day -1000% improvement! Compare it to the WestEnd in Dallas or any other entertainment district and it ranks with the best of them. I’d like to hear more about all the positive things going on and how much money is raised every year for non-profits and organizations that help those that need it and many of these events are held on Dickson Street. Don’t forget the WAC and Downtown Square…very positive places. Fayetteville is a great place to live and do business.
There is no one to slap the hand of news stations like 40/29 for irresponsible journalism, (except of course all of the devotees who make their voices heard in a forum like this) but i say, if this truly “scares” certain folks away from Dickson Street, so be it. How many could actually buy into this? The true locals, of which there are MANY, know the truth and will patronize Dickson Street regardless of such bunk. It’s the heart of our town. It’s just like the other old issue- if people think we’re so backward and dumb and redneck here in Arkansas, maybe, just maybe, they’ll choose NOT to move down here. That’s not such a bad thing to me anymore, a lifelong Arky. Though business development is vital, and promotion of our local businesses is what helps us thrive as a community, pretty, clean, progressive Dickson Street is not as good a story apparently. Of course it has drunks, (there are bars there), of course there are drugs (it’s a college town) but duh, common sense tells you when it’s appropriate for families and when it’s appropriate for partying. It DID use to be kind of scary in parts, long ago, but it’s nothing like that now. It’s beautiful, culturally rich and a part of Northwest Arkansas’ soul. If you don’t like it, or Ftown or our ways, stay the heck out. We’re fine, thanks.
Mr. Gazzolla – if those people you refer to don’t bring their kids to a bar and be sure to head home by 10:30 or so, they shouldn’t have to explain anything controversial. You know, like, people laughing and enjoying themselves, people of diverse backgrounds sitting at the same tables…
Whoa…there is an easy solution to this situation. You just gotta think “outside the WAC box:”
WAC just needs to build a new swank private club building somewhere behind guarded gates in Benton County. Inside would be a fancy bar, fancy dining, and private club suites (a’la private suites in Razorback Stadium & Walton Arena) with luxury seating, cigar ventilation, go-go-booted attendants, etc. Each suite would contain a giant screen high definition TV directly connected to the performance going on inside WAC on Dickson Street. This way, these people don’t have to drive to “dark” Dickson, nor mingle with, or horrors sit next to, academic, artistic or hippy types.
The current performance hall would effectively double in audience capacity, and triple in profit, since the club suite tickets would be astronomical in price since they’re all going on expense accounts anyway.
Combine this with decreased parking pressure on the “dark” Dickson area, and there simply is no reason to move WAC out to catfish heights near 540.
This is all part of an organized effort to get the WAC out of Fayetteville, the leaders of this movement are new money folks from Bentonville. The effort is being led by administrators inside the WAC, business owners that would profit if the WAC was moved and some major money players in Bentonville.
I love the WAC and Dickson street, the only dark side I see is the big ugly buildings that are empty all week and jammed packed on Sunday.
I’ve lived here 45 years and Dickson is much more of a family place that it was when I was a kid. Sure there are people from all walks of life converging on Dickson on busy nights and there is the occassional goober that makes a fool of himself. If that qualifies as “dark” then the mall should be tagged as dark ..and razorback football games …and the list goes on.
I don’t want my kids to be exposed to only the most sterile of environments. That’s just not the real world. It’s important for my kids to all types of people enjoying each other and enjoying what Dickson Street has to offer. And, yes, I even welcome the sign toting corner campers from Missouri. There are lessons for my kids there as well.
I think the intention of the piece was to promote the police department and to demonstrate the importance of them being properly funded to KEEP Dickson Street safe. A lot does happen, but it’s safe because the police on Dickson have such a quick response time. I see far more sensationalizing here complete with conspiracy reader comments than in the 40/29 piece.
Is there anyone out there willing to comment on this feed who do think that Dickson St. is dark, seedy, or unsafe? If so, please speak up so we can devour your flesh.
Maybe Mr. Gazzola is either (1) trying to distract from all the truly unsafe things that take place in the neighborhood of his establishment; or (2) has some land he or some family member or friend would like to sell for the location of a NEW WAC. Either way, his facts are WAY off, and it is much ado about nothing.
Now that I have taken a good look at all the unsafe activities going on in the vicinty of The Catfish Hole, I think I no longer care how wonderful and tasty it is. I’ll now take my business down to Dickson Street, in support of the businesses and atmosphere being disrespected by Mr. Gazzola. AND I’ll continue spending many afternoons and evenings at the current (and hopefully permanent) location of the Walton Arts Center. If they cave to Mr. Gazzola’s misinformation, I will stay away from them, too. Dickson Street is the perfect place for Walton Arts Center. It makes our little city just perfect.
Jacey that’s a cop out (heh). You seem to be implying that Dickson St would dissolve into anarchy if not for the constant policing. Sorry, but that’s bs. While I appreciate and respect the FPD, no amount of police can make an area safe or unsafe. It’s up to the people.
I reject the idea that we should exaggerate the dangers of Dickson St to ensure law enforcement funding. That is the definition of fear mongering.
The catfish at Mamma Deans is so good I have seen grown men crying joyful tears at lunch in-between bites. And the hush puppies are super, not those leaden balls they serve at the Hole. Their fried pork chops come straight from heaven. But, if you really want to live, go with a buddy; one of ya order the catfish, the other order the chicken-fried steak, and share. Nuff said. (Oh, save room for the best banana bread pudding you’ve ever tasted, any where.)
One of my business The Camera Shop Inc. was on Dickson St from 1974 till we helped start the improvement district that helped make the Walton Arts Center possible. I sold & encouraged other property owners to sell their propriety to the city of Fayetteville so the arts center could be built. I did not want to lose our location on Dickson we felt that the arts center was a very positive thing to happen to Dickson St. In all the years on Dickson we never experienced a” break-in” @ our Camera Shop $500,000.00 inventory of photographic in the business in the 70′s. None of the the murders which occurred in the area were on Dickson contrary to what the N.W. Ark. Times reported. I all ways employed women some as young as 16 (summer jobs) & none of them ever felt threatened or unsafe. The only dark side to Dickson Street is bum rap it receives from a very small group of people many of which have never set foot on the street!
George, if it’s up to the people- then Heather and I would have beat the tar out of that rare but real drunk attacker at Common Grounds ourselves. I suppose that would be anarchy. But police response in 30 seconds? That restores any feeling of safety lost.
@jacey – I’m not saying the cops aren’t necessary. All I’m saying is that we need to be realistic in our assessment of need. There is such a thing as too many cops. And don’t say u can’t put a price on safety…because u have to. Otherwise everyone would have 2 cops assigned to protect them at all times. The other end of the spectrum would be no cops at all. The right answer is somewhere in between. Plus there’s a “big Brother” creepiness about too many police.
“Perhaps the people who consider Dickson unsafe haven’t actually been there since the 80’s. Now THAT was a seedy stretch of concrete.”
Leprachaun I was there too & I’d beg to disagree, as would Sardon, John A. Arkansawyer, and a few others. yes, it was economically depressed at the time but hardly dangerous. Best here to heed John A.’s warning upstream: this is a repeat of a the kind of campaign to paint Dickson as “dangerous” that was used then to justify the measures that the city took (knocking down buildings on the historical register, for instance) to get the Arts Center located there in the first place. The questions many of you are raising about the motives behind these stories are cogent and deserve a good public airing.
And, while rejecting the notion that the street now is ‘dangerous” in any real sense, compared to an area that’s, you know, dangerous, I do have to say that I feel less safe there now than I used to. There ARE more bars, and more of them strictly drinking bars instead of music bars, which I think makes a difference. As JAA pointed out, more bouncers, some of whom are good folks and some of whom are bored knuckleheads looking to justify their employment. And maybe most importantly, the people drinking at the bars are less likely to be people who live in the surrounding neighborhoods, less likely to feel a connection to the place, to the people who work in the bars, more likely to start shit without regard to the consequences.
I have mixed feelings about the WAC’s potential move. the WAC was foisted on the street in the beginning, and I find the changes in the scale and the culture of the street since it arrived to be obnoxious. Regardless of safety, Dickson Street has become, in the past 20 years a more expensive, less inclusive and less interesting place. it’s lost much of it’s uniqueness and become more or less Fayetteville’s version of “College Party Strip USA.” But, taking the WAC somewhere else, especially to Benton County, won’t bring back any of the streets earlier thwarted possibilities.
Thanks Fayetteville. Tulsa loves you. We would love to see you screw it up really big so we don’t have competition for our show, arts and other cultural dollars. We’ve made some big investments over here. It is tough in Tulsa, and getting tougher, as FAY’s arts, music and cultural scene improves. Before I forget, thanks for all those gambling dollars we get in OK. (Missouri thanks you too). Come on over, Tulsa isn’t a dangerous place There are classes all over this town to allow carrying of concealed weapons. You feel threatened? bring your gun. Oh yeah, can someone tell me the local channel number for 40/29 so I won’t make the mistake when in FAY of watching their news after a big meal at the Catfish Hole and just before I go down to Dickson Street for a little entertainment (don’t worry, I’ll leave my concealed weapon in Tulsa). I’m not sure…can I still eat at the Hole if I am planning to do Dickson Street later in the evening?
A couple of other thoughts. I remember when Dickson was only unsafe if somebody at Roger’s wanted to “take it outside”. The only time I feel unsafe now is when I approach a curb.
Jacey- I love that you said we’d a beat the tar out of him! We were entirely too busy standing there with our mouths wide open to do a damn thing, but you’re completely right- if the cops wouldn’t have showed up so quickly it would’ve been left up to those of us that were there to defend ourselves against the drunken Kung-Fu master himself… and I aint gonna try that in heels.
The Fayetteville Police do a fantastic job of keeping an eye out and when things do get out of hand, handle the situation with efficiency and (dare I say) grace. We truly have a unique police force, especially those officers working every weekend… I’d love to hear their opinion about all of this hullabaloo.
[...] Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the last few days (is that even possible?), you’re probably familiar with the recent controversy regarding the safety of Dickson Street. If not, you can learn all about it on our original editorial post, “What ‘darker side’ of Dickson Street?” [...]
Gazolla has always been a dick. On more than one occasion when I have been eating at the Catfish Hole, Gazolla has belittled and embarrassed an employee in front of me. His name popping up in the middle of this mess didn’t surprise me one bit.
Mr. Gazzola clarifies his comments about the safety of Dickson Street. “I was talking about parking,” says Gazzola. “I just chose poor words.”
We’ll have the complete story tonight on Fox News Edge and KNWA.
I feel very comfortable on Dickson Street, whether I am going to the Walton Arts Center or to a bar.
I’ll certainly watch the report tonight on TV, and be interested to see the response.
However, it doesn’t appear that clarification is the issue. The direct quote attributed to Pat Gazzola on the KNWA webpage seems to need little clarity to understand:
“I stand by my comments,” says Gazzola. “There are safety factors when it comes to parking, huge party problems with people drinking alcohol, and there is no doubt the Walton Arts Center would be much safer if it was moved somewhere along Interstate 540.”
Pretty plain English to me.
We’ll update the website with Gazolla’s clarification within minutes of the story airing on KNWA tonight.
He should have just apologized instead of saying he was misunderstood.
What a total cop out.
Hell, even I admit when I screw up or say the wrong stuff, and I’m a bastard.
Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, Catfish Pat as got to go
I wonder how the woman who got gay-bashed on Dickson Street feels about the question of her safety there. The guy who got put out of a bar on a pretext when it was really about his race, I wonder how he feels about hearing Dickson Street is a welcoming environment.
With large crowds who feel entitled (the well-to-do and privileged people the Walm-Art and the New Dickson Street is designed to attract) and marinate them in alcohol, you have an atmosphere in which I do not feel safe. Those for whom Dickson Street has been remade no doubt disagree.
I don’t feel so unsafe as not to go to Dickson Street when I’m back in Fayetteville–I spent the better part of the last thirty years living an easy walk away from it–but I don’t feel comfortable there and I seldom go to bars there.
By the way, Butch Coger is wrong when he says, “None of the the murders which occurred in the area were on Dickson.” The drive-by at the Swinging Door was most certainly on Dickson, as was the near-fatal stabbing at the Landing Strip. The shotgun murder (and doesn’t everyone sympathize with the killer, who was quoted as saying he’d shot the guy because he was selling bad drugs?) was just behind the storefronts on Dickson, on a block which bordered on Dickson Street, so I think that counts. The two recent murders were two short blocks away. No one really knows what happened to the guy found by the tracks at George’s.
That adds up to five violent deaths (that I know of) in the last thirty years within two blocks of Dickson Street, between University and College, three of them actually on Dickson Street. That’s not much by big city standards, but neither is Dickson Street. Make of that what you will.
I heard about some black guys who thought STIR was racist because of their dress policy. Since then I’ve been by STIR a few times and even sat at the bar. Everytime I went there were black people there, so I’d say that instance, if thats what you are referring to, was some stupid punk kids who made a big deal out of nothing.
I’m not aware of the lesbian thing.
And yes, we do know what happened to the kid on the tracks. He got drunk, and passed out on the way back to his fraternity house.
As for there having been violent death on or around Dickson in the past 30 years….wow.
The only violent deaths in the Dickson area happened 25 + years ago. Thats before most of the street’s current patrons were even born. Its ancient history.
What two recent murders are you talking about happening within 2 blocks of Dickson Street? I am not aware of any. Enlighten me.
I only count 2 murders in the Dickson area, pre WAC, and at bars that are so long gone, I’ve never even heard of them.
The kid on the tracks didn’t die, as far as I know.
If you are referring to the kids who got killed by the Katrina fugee in the drug deal, that was nowhere near Dickson Street. That happened north of North Street, off Poplar. Thats so far “off Dickson” that your inclusion of those in your little rant undermines any credibility you may have had.
Its not two blocks away. Its a mile away. It had nothing to do with Dickson Street.
So, now we’re back to two “Dickson area” murders, which happened 25 and 30 years ago.
This town is small. If someone is killed or shot or stabbed, people hear about it. Don’t bullshit us about our town. We live here.
You fail.
@Arkansawer “Well, Dickson Street is at least as dangerous as it was in the eighties. Probably more so, since there are a lot more bouncers and other vigilante enforcers hanging around.”
Umm….how are bouncers making Dickson more dangerous? I understand a few of them get a cocky attitude and act big and bad more than they have reason to,but they certainly don’t make me feel uncomfortable (other than having to stare at yet another meathead trying to fit into his pants like a sausage casing) but if anything they are there to DEFEND Dickson and its patrons right? Or am I missing something there? And what “vigilante enforcers” are you referring to exactly?
As for the african american getting put out of a bar, I certainly don’t condone or even tolerate racism, but I doubt he felt his safety was being jeopardized, that’s just a lame kick to the already down dog here.
Now…”With large crowds who feel entitled (the well-to-do and privileged people the Walm-Art and the New Dickson Street is designed to attract)and marinate them in alcohol, you have an atmosphere in which I do not feel safe.”
Who do you think goes to the WAC John? I’m not saying that that they are the sole customer base by any means, but I for one go way less often than I’d like b/c I simply can’t afford the ticket prices on a regular basis. One guess who the regulars are at the WAC….you got it “the well-to-do and privileged.”
Total Bastard, apparently you don’t know the Dickson Street area very well.
There was a double murder on Boles Street in the mid-nineties, which is between Lafayette and Dickson, right by the Post Office. It was a man who worked in a nearby metalworking shop and his girlfriend or wife (I think wife, but I’m not certain). Shot to death, I believe, and I think they convicted someone of it.
The dead guy by George’s–he was most certainly dead–is said to have fallen off the bridge that was between George’s and West. That didn’t seem too likely, but Dickson Street gentrification was in full swing, and I don’t think anyone wanted to know if he’d been hit in the head before he went over the side.
That was a particularly ugly story, as lots of people walking down Dickson Street reported having seen him lying there, and all had very good reasons for not bothering to check on him or call the police. He apparently didn’t die quickly, and he might’ve been saved, had just one of those people cared.
It may be your town, Total Bastard, but I lived and breathed Dickson Street for many years, and I have a stronger command of the facts than you do.
skalmt,
When you say, “if anything they [bouncers] are there to DEFEND Dickson and its patrons right?” I just have to shake my head.
No, bouncers don’t have some abstract notion of Dickson Street to defend, and they aren’t looking out for Dickson Street patrons. Their job is to serve the interests of the bar owner that pays them. If that means cold-cocking someone who flirted with the owner’s girlfriend, well, hey! All part of the job.
The anecdotal reports I’ve gotten of people being unnecessarily thumped on by bouncers don’t convince me there is a problem. They also don’t convince me there isn’t. What they do convince me of is that bouncers need to be trained, certified, and regulated–not just on Dickson Street, but everywhere.
The other thing that I am absolutely convinced of is that most violence in bars on Dickson Street goes unreported to the police.
I asked one friend who got his head opened up three years ago by a Dickson Street bouncer why he didn’t call the police. His answer was that the guy who did it was in with the police. I thought that likely, given the number of reliable reports about this guy going off on people and getting away with it.
How many times do you think that happens in the average month?
No, I don’t know, either. All I know is that it’s more than is reported, and that if the city of Fayetteville cared, it could find out.
I don’t think Fayetteville wants an honest measurement of bar violence. Bad for business.
P.S. Total Bastard, in my opinion, if you’ve never heard of the Swinging Door, you don’t know d*ck about D*ckson Street.
The murder of the Overbos on Boles Street had nothing to do with Dickson Street or the bars there. The killer was a coworker of Mrs. Overbo and had developed an inappropriate interest in her. When he was unable to act on that interest in a way that satisfied him, he developed an inappropriate solution to his dilemma.
Boles Street and the surrounding residential enclave was once very much its own little world. At one time, it had as much influence on Dickson Street as Dickson Street had on it.
David Franks, thanks for straightening out John A on the Boles Street Massacree. That guy was actually a serial killer and killed at least one other person in a motel on College. Also John A is wrong about a shooting at the Swinging Door. It was the Whitewater Tavern. A random drive by through the frosted glass (not under the Cowboy’s crotch) in 1982.
I don’t know about a shotgun killing over bad drugs. The Law Quad double murder by the NOLA thug was a pistol shooting over stolen drugs. I don’t know about John’s “two recent killings two short blocks away.” Is one of them the hit and run on Center St.?
John also loses me with his dead guy between George’s and West, involving a bridge. This is one of the lowest parts of town, and is flat. Just a parking lot there for the past 15+ years, and no dead guy. Maybe he is talking about the frat kid who fell asleep on the tracks, except he’s not dead, and it’s a real stretch to believe he fell or was pushed off the bridges he was found between (Maple and Lafayette). A real hard push that sends you a block sideways?
The Law Quad had at least one other girlfriend killing, and there was the girl killed by her ex in College Park and one at Colonial Arms. In fact, the apartment stretch north of college, straddling Scull Creek, is probably unsafe, especially for young women. A friend of mine calls it Dead Girl Crick.
Arkansawyer:
I have heard of the Swingin Door. My PARENTS used to go there. I’m 32 years old. I think it closed sometime in my early childhood. They used to also go to the Library.
Again, the examples you reference to prove that Dickson IS unsafe are all ancient history. You are only talking about “was”.
I can remember going to a Dickson Street when the bakery building was a bakery, and there were a number of boarded up buildings there. Its a lot nicer now than it was even in 1995 when I first started to go there, the same as most downtown areas nationwide. I know it wasn’t touted as a cultural phenomenon (since Boomers didn’t do it) but people of my generation love our downtowns, and insisted on their revival. Call it gentrification or yuppification, but on the balance American downtowns everywhere are better because Xers insisted on living and hanging out in them.
The assumptions about Dickson circa 1995 don’t even apply anymore. Try to buy a house or condo in the downtown area for less than 150k.
You’re old, and you’re out of touch. Your views of Dickson Street have very little to do with today’s reality.
Spare me the Baby Boomer nostalgia. I just wish people your age would decide if Dickson was better back then (like I always hear) or a nightmare of random crime (which is a gross exaggerration).
Either way, just go away and take your outdated worldview with you. If you have to stretch the truth to claim random violent crime even happened on Dickson within the past 30 years, I think you prove the other side right anyway. Hell, there’s probably been as much random crime on Thompson in Springdale in that same time period.
Tell me about something that has happened on Dickson in the last 10 years or get lost.
HEY HEY HEY! TB: I think we are losing sight of the real issue here; that Gazzola has pimped out his opinions to further his own agenda, not Fayetteville’s. J. Arkansawyer is a member of this weird group of people (that I have seen comment on FF before) who move out of the area with plenty to complain about, yet they still read and comment on *FAYETTEVILLE* Flyer. I don’t get that. If Fayetteville ever pissed me off bad enough to move away, I sure as sh*t wouldn’t be reading any publications from the place. I wouldn’t give a flying Fayetteville f*ck. The point is that true locals who get out and breathe the Dickson Street air on a daily basis are far more qualified to decide what is best for it. Mayor Jordan for example. Former Mayer Dan Coody; you can always see these guys around town. I have never seen Gazzola around Dickson. wouldn’t want to…
Just be aware folks: This may be a thread/forum for all voices to be heard, but it’s the *FAYETTEVILLE* Flyer. If the folks who are involved in the city and actually live here don’t like what you say, you need to expect a fight and to have the flesh clawed from your bones.
Hey Jack, you and I have had a few laughs on here in the past so I hope you know I’m down with ya and not interested in an internet tit-for-tat. But, I’ve got to say that discounting Arkansawyer, Urk and others as people who left Fayetteville with a bad taste in their mouths is way off the mark. In the game of “Heavy hitters from Dickson Street’s secret underbelly”, these guys were among the heaviest. You know how music rags do “They Also Served” musician obits? These guys served BIG time. Wife, children and furthering opportunities have moved them on…not disgust. These scrapes start when people absentee from the past repeat (with confidence) the story of “bad old Dickson”. It rankles us old timers. But, that’s the circle of life. In 15 years, new people will be telling the newly old guys that their Dickson is better, safer, funner, more special etc… and the newly old guys will cringe and think “what a bunch of maroons”.
Jack, saying that you’d forget about your town if it ever pissed you off enough to move away isn’t exactly a testament to your involvement or commitment. People move away for alot of reasons, not just because someplace pisses them off. In fact, it’s quite possible to love someplace alot, and to be disappointed by it. I assume that you’re younger than me, and I hope that you come to care enough for someplace in your life that you’d remain engaged with it and it’s people through changes that you didn’t like, or across geographical distance.
I don’t live in Fayetteville anymore. I grew up there, living as a kid in that enclave around Boles that David Franks rightly mentions. I lived in 33 different houses or apartments in 35 years. I have family and friends that are more family than family there. I visit twice a year, and if I could get back there to live I would and may still. I’ve expended copious amounts of blood and sweat and ink and time and money trying to make things happen and would again. I think that that this gives me a stake in the town at least equal to somebody who lives there now, but would forget about it in a heartbeat if it pissed them off. Lots of people move to Fayetteville, do some college and party for 2-4 years and move on. As a townie kid I used to resent the way the town catered to the student population, but, the greatest cultural happening of my life so far happened when the townie art punks and the student art punks got together. In fact, over the past 40-50 years, probably longer, part of what has made Fayetteville special is the way it turned temporary visitors into lifelong residents.
The point isn’t who is older, who was here first, or who contributes what to Fayetteville.
The point is inaccuracy.
I could say: “Springdale is 99% white and full of rednecks.”
I could say: “Its a deadly drive from here to Alma.”
I could say: “The Texas game is the biggest event fo the fall.”
The point is, what may have been true in 1985 is no longer true. Anybody who spends actual time in Fayetteville the past 10 years would know that. Failing to acknowledge current reality and attempting to drive A VERY IMPORTANT DECISION based on old data is what is frustrating.
Arkansawyer’s inability to provide contemporary examples of violent crime on Dickson only proves what 90% of the people on here have been saying.
hey, thanks for the vote of confidence yrfuneralmytrial. I wanted to add that what I (and arknsawyer too,)are peddling isn’t boomer nostalgia, it’s local history. It’s easy to misunderstand this as a simple two-sided thing: Catfish Pat says Dickson is dangerous, for self serving reasons. the forces of justice, light, and good times point out that it isn’t dangerous by any reasonable standard whatsoever.
True enough, but there’s some history and a paradox here: The last time that the “Dickson is dangerous” meme was circulated, it was part of an effort to get it cleaned up by locating the WAC there. So, in the 80s, Dickson Steet was so dangerous that they had to put an arts center there to clean it up and change the profile of the area. Now, other people with money, power, and vested interests are saying that Dickson Street is so dangerous that they have to move the Arts Center out of there. That’s the history, that there’s a pattern of local fatcats manipulating the street’s image for their own gain.
but, here’s the paradox: I think that the original “cleaning up” of Dickson actually made it less unique, less hospitable, and even a little more dangerous. This doesn’t mean that I support Catfish Pat’s point, but it does mean that I think that the WAC wasn’t an unequivocal boon to the street (it blew the architectural scale all to hell for one thing…) and that there are some things to worry about and watch out for in the bar culture that’s grown up there over the past two decades. What I, and Arkensawyer 9and I think others would support this too-sardon?) are trying to do, is complicate the discussion.
Look at it this way: I live in a different, upper Midwestern college town, one with a downtown student-bar culture that’s gotten it on the Playboy list a few more times than Fayetteville. During Football season especially, the steets are full of drunken college kids all night from thurs-sunday. There are lots of successful bars making $ hand over fist. In many ways, it’s an older, better developed idea of what’s been growing on Dicksons Street since the mid 90s, after the idea that it would be an entertainment district beat out the idea that it would be a nice little shopping district.
The college bar culture in my town is an important part of the town’s economic picture, and it’s part of what people have come to see as mainstream college culture, just what kids do. So, for long time a general level of violence and chaos that comes with a booze-fueled culture was swept under the rug, or not reported, or pooh-poohed as just kids being kids. but in the last couple of years we’ve had increasing reports of assualts, sexual assaults, group beatings, rapes in dorms after nights out at the bar, random property damage, etc. It;s beginning to be acknowledged as a real problem.
I’d like Fayetteville to not get to that point, and that’s why I bring up the fact that Dickson street felt safer and more welcoming the first time it was supposed to be “dangerous” than it does now. Don’t let arguing with FatCatfish Pat blind you to the culture that surrounds you.
TB, I’ll say it again: Arkensawyer is not trying to argue in favor of Catfish Pat’s point.
Dickson is more dangerous than it used to be.
Dickson is not dangerous by any reasonable measure.
These statements do not contradict each other.
Who’s older isn’t the point. Knowing your history helps everyone.
I guess I’m still missing the part where Dickson is dangerous? I just tend to think that a few isolated crimes do not = danger. Couldn’t this argument be made for any part of town that one is looking to label “dangerous”? Find a neighborhood you want to argue and research crimes comitted and presto changeo you have danger Will Robinson….
Exactly skalmt.
skalmt- I don’t know if you’re being willfully obtuse or what, but most of what i said above, and what I said yesterday is supposed to indicate a belief that isn’t a matter of separate incidents, it’s the growth of a culture that tolerates a certain level of violence because it’s all part of the college entertainment district experience. Is it “dangerous” the way Pat says it is? No. Is it unhealthy, unfriendly (depending on who you are), and does it have the potential to grow into something that is dangerous while everyone is busy having fun? Yes. Do I wish that y’all could get your heads around both Catfish Pat being full of shit and Dickson Street having the potential for unacknowledged problems? yes.
@Urk wow…You can call me “willfully obtuse” if you’d like (incidentally that comment wasn’t even directed at you necessarily, just b/c a comment is under yours doesn’t mean it is @ you) but who’s tolerating “a certain level of violence b/c it’s all part of the college entertainment district experience”? Are we missing something I’m not aware of? Are there rapes or murders or even muggings that are being chalked up to those crazy college kids that I’m not aware of?
And is Dickson any more or less violent than for example Marinoni’s land out on Weddington? That neighborhood over there isn’t the greatest, and I wonder what we could find if we checked out records over there? Calm down Urk…this isn’t a personal attack.
Come on, URK. 1)There is no implication from my statement that leaving town is a testament of my level of commitment. That’s a stretch and you know it. 2)Don’t insult eveyone’s intelligence by listing reasons why some people leave towns. Furthermore, I don’t fall into the category of folks that would leave a town based on its level of good or bad before I got my own hands dirty in the cause to improve it. That’s why I am on this forum.
I wholly against this idea/philosophy of danger lurking around every corner. Everyone in Fayetteville decides their own level of involvement. Are you telling me that if the scene on Dickson was different, the whole town would come down in droves to experience it? Preposterous! Some people are just f*cking lazy. Some just cannot get off their asses to actually see what is actually going on downtown and decide whether or not it encroaches on their personal boundaries. So therein lies the problem: the folks who don’t go experience the scene themselves and choose to sit on the couch have no choice but to gain the experience from a 3 minute soundbyte from 40/29 and FatCat PatFish. It has all been so subjective. As I said before, do you ever see Mr. Catfish on Dickson at night? Is he really afraid or does he just prefer to turn in at 9pm??
crazy. i think we can all agree that fear mongering is the worst. i haven’t experienced any violence at all in fayetteville and don’t think creating a problem is relevant in an era of so many real problems. does dickson st. have a dark side? probably not, no. is dickson st. bored yet? honestly who are the people out there most nights? where are these dregs shipped in from? how do they multiply so fast? why do these people dress the same? are they really people? why don’t they shop at the book stores? forgetfulness is easy…let the trains roll in and not stop
@Urk, did you happen to play bass with the Slippery Dogs?
Back on topic, I think the Marinoni-Gazzola land conspiracy is pretty insane, but since skalmt asked, yes, the high crime areas are the Dead Girl Crick apartment corridor and the Betty Jo area across the bypass from the Marinoni Serengeti. I saw a GIS map prepared for the FPD showing this. When considering this, it helps to know that the # 1 crime in Fayetteville at the time was car break ins, or more specifically car stereo thefts. The students with nice car stereos live there, so those were really high victim density areas.
I note that this was a few years ago. I understand that car makers now put better stereos in the cars and people don’t buy custom sound anymore, so people don’t steal stereos anymore because they’re all car model specific. Maybe the # 1 crime now is people not buying catfish from Pat.
I have a direct challenge for Mr. Gazolla: On a Friday night at 9:30 pm, I’ll walk alone from one end of Dickson to the other, on both sides, and through all the dark parking lots, for 2 hours. All you have to do is walk for one hour, half my time, up and down Betty Jo Drive, until 10:30 pm, alone. What do you say?
Dickson Street is a safe place to take family. I find that people think it even remotely unsafe as completely ridiculous and inane.
skalmt- sorry, just had my dander up. I am trying to split hairs here between Catfish Pat’s bogus fearmongering and what I see as a real (if largely potential) problem in the commercial booze culture on Dickson. Because of the way “dangerous” is being used for both, confusion comes easy. I do want to refute the fearmongering, but I do also think that people should be critical and skeptical about what the street has become (not all bad by any means! Not what Pat says!) since the current conditions are a direct result of earlier attempts to clean it up based on earlier fearmongering.
sorry it isn’t a simple point. I’m certain that we could find more “dangerous” stretches of territory in Fayetteville and I’m certain that nowhere in Fayetteville is particularly dangerous compared to most larger cities. I’m certain that FatCatPatfish is a total hypocrite. No disagreement there. But I’m finding myself unable to talk about this without remembering that a more benign and less expensive commercial booze culture, one that was friendlier to freaky folks, one that involved more people who lived in the surrounding neighborhoods, one that had more live music and less meat market bars, etc. was pushed out in order to make way for the one that’s being defended here. Because it was portrayed as “dangerous.” I find that deeply ironic. It is sideways of the disagreeement with CAtfish Pat’s remarks, and I thought I could make this clear, but I guess I’m not. If your main point is that Pat Garazzola is full of *, well I don’t disagree. but there’s a history to the flavor of bullshit that he’s selling, there’s a reason why he expects it to resonate with a certain audience, and better places than the current Dickson Street have fallen because of it.
Jack:
you said “1)There is no implication from my statement that leaving town is a testament of my level of commitment. That’s a stretch and you know it.”- no offense meant really, but you did say ” If Fayetteville ever pissed me off bad enough to move away, I sure as sh*t wouldn’t be reading any publications from the place. I wouldn’t give a flying Fayetteville f*ck.”
Thus my reaction. I don’t know you, and I don’t mean any personal insult, I just wanted to refute your claim that your current residence in the town neccessarily amounted to a greater stake than that of anyone who had moved away, or that wierd to continue to care about someplace you used to live enough to read about it online.
And I don’t see danger around every corner. I just know that in college towns a certain kind of bad stuff gets swept under the rug, until one day the rug has a big hump underneath it. I’m not saying that I want the street to be nicey-nice for everybody in town. Really, I’d like it to be more wide-open, but a different, freakier, less expensive flavor of wide open.
oh, and Sardon, that’s me. How would I know you in your secret identity?
David Franks, Sardon,
Thanks for the facts about the Overbo murders.
My memory is that Mr. Overbo’s workplace was also just off Dickson Street, in the Gregory Center area. Do I have that right? I also remember the end of it, with those killings and the killing at the motel being linked. My memory is there was strong physical evidence linking the guy who was killed to the motel murder, but not much to the Overbo murders, and that I was suspicious of whether the guy who was convicted actually killed the Overbos. It was during the Dickson Street gentrification, and an unsolved murder in the neighborhood would be bad for business.
I agree it’s no more (or just as much) a Dickson Street murder than the shotgun murder was, but the shotgun murder was used to argue that Dickson Street was dangerous, after about the same amount of time had passed as has now passed the Overbo murders.
Like I say, Dickson Street is at least as dangerous now as during the eighties.
Now, before I get into anything contentious, let me ask a question:
Why would it be worse for Fayetteville to expand the Walm-Art out by 540 than to expand it on Dickson Street?
yrfuneralmytrial,
I myself am just a loudmouth who had a gift for talking otherwise sensible people into doing stupid stuff.
Urk, on the other hand, is who I hope to be when I grow up. He’s the real deal.
Two quotes from nearly consecutive posts by Total Bastard:
“You’re old…I just wish people your age…”
Four intervening posts later:
“The point isn’t who is older…”
Your confusion doesn’t mean I don’t take you seriously, but your inability to remember the steep drop-off down to the creek, bounded by a guardrail, along the edge of the sidewalk from George’s to West Street, well, that’s a little more problematic.
The guy was found dead down there while I was selling books for a living, which would be between ’87 and ’90–I think toward the end of that time.
As to current violence, if you don’t remember the woman who was gay-bashed, do you remember the guys who got convicted earlier this year for serial muggings down by the tracks? When Lee Durkee got mugged by the tracks in eighty, um, five? it was the talk of the street, because it just didn’t happen down there.
Organized serial muggings on Dickson Street can’t be all that unusual in 2009, if you don’t remember them, which apparently you don’t.
Anyway, there is some level of violence which goes unreported around bars. I can’t judge how much because there aren’t any numbers.
Asking bartenders and bouncers for public comment about violence on Dickson Street, like the author of this piece did, is not how I’d go about finding out. Asking them quietly, after hours, on a just-between-you-and-me basis, works better. Asking people who go to the bars but don’t work there is better yet.
By the way, I finally gave up my pied-à-terre in Fayetteville–just a block off Dickson Street, I might add–at the end of 2006, when I let a friend in need take over the sweetest rental deal I ever had. Since then, I’ve been back at least monthly. I was in town for Mother’s Day; I’ll be there this weekend.
By the way, before we variously aged farts got ahold of the topic, there were some very thoughtful comments. These two stand out:
http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2009/05/11/what-darker-side-of-dickson-street/comment-page-3/#comment-9386
http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2009/05/11/what-darker-side-of-dickson-street/comment-page-3/#comment-9431
You’ll note that if I’d read that second one carefully, I wouldn’t've misattributed the shooting at the Whitewater Tavern to the Swinging Door. All the same building, but a different business. Thanks to Sardon again for getting a fact right where I was close but no cigar.
If anyone is seriously interested in the shotgun murder, I’ll be seeing the killer’s brother–or maybe he was the killer. I never can remember–next week. I’d rather not bring up an unpleasant topic from the past, but if I have to do it to get a fact straight, I suppose I’ll do it, unhappily.
Arkansawyer, that’s something to think about: minus the fearmongering, what’s the upside downside of the WAC moving out to 540? I don’t want it to go to Benton County, and I wonder what the hell they’d do with that big ugly building on Dickson?
The people at the Walm-Art say–and I have no reason to disbelieve them–that the Dickson Street facility is not being shut down. They’re looking at options for expanding, not moving.
Hi, Urk. I’m Johnnie Cole’s buddy with a wife named Sarah. I think I last saw you at Jamey’s wedding after Sarah and I moved back from Florida in 1993. We worked together at LJ’s when the gass passer owned the place in 1988 (I had a chicken ranch at the time). I brought Dead and Radiators tapes. You liked the Rads better.
I work for the U. Look me up on the web site and email me. Are you in Madison? Minny? Hope you’re doing well. Love to hear from you.
Cool Sardon, I will. I’m in Iowa City, working on an American Studies PhD. More via email as soon as I rummage thru the memory bank…
[...] say that Gazzola’s comments at a recent A&P meeting regarding a “not all that safe” Dickson Street were not [...]
I thought I took the “dark side” of Dickson with me when I moved to Seattle last year…
Well I guess I forgot to pack it when I left town. So here are some comments.
1.) To the cop who was quoted about Dickson: WTF? If I was mayor I’d fire you’re ass for saying anything off message about the Walton Arts Center moving to Benton County. Seriously? Are you working for Bentonville A&P?
2.) What was the point of the last decade of gentrification on Dickson Street?
3.) The intoxicated types were there before the WAC, and before the yuppies.
4.) In my book the most “unsafe” conditions on Dickson are the out-of-town football fans who want to pick a fight after a beer or two (but hey they are contributing to the economy); and the thugs (or rather the scholarship athletes and their fans) hanging outside the Dick St. Theater and other locales. Those guys know that they can act the fool because if they get in trouble it will be a slap on the wrist.
5.) Maybe getting rid of the WAC and all the yuppie * will help Dickson Street get back to its authentic, ne’re-do-well (and fun) roots.
6.) Inner city Little Rock has a “dark side.” My hometown of El Dorado has a “dark side.” Does Gazolla have any idea what a fucking dark side is? Perhaps he should take a scenic tour of the Thunderzone in El Dog.
Just an update:
Gazzola resigns from A&P!
Here is the FayettevilleFlyer writeup: http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2009/05/18/pat-gazzola-resigns-from-ap-commission
Here is NWAOnline: http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/05/18/news/051909fzgazzola.txt
Lots of discussion about a 23-year-old murder case.
Twenty-three years ago I was a reporter on cops and fire beat in Houston. I made it policy to cover only three murders per day “on-site” depending on whether there was a notable aspect to them.
Anything beyond that, I covered by police report.
If the worst of the unsafe conditions on Dickson is a 23-year-old murder — you people don’t know how good you’ve got it.
FWIW- If you want to consider the possibility of organized violence in Fayetteville, have a look at the relatively recent killings of Trent Breeden (2007) and Benny Spears (2005).
There is a definite connection that was officially glossed over.
“DARK SIDE”? Blah, blah, blah! Grow up FPD. If Dickson Street is worst that Fayetteville has to offer then it should serve as a reminder to all of us why we choose to live here. Because its SAFE.
Arkansawyer said: “I have a stronger command of the facts than you do.”
No.
I think the facts about Dickson area crime are pretty clear. Its rare by any standard.
The only disagreement we have is that you apparently consider something that happened in 1990 near Dickson to be relevant to discussions about the safety of Dickson Street in 2009.
I don’t.
I don’t take my children to Dickson after dark.
Matter of fact, I have wanted to take them to several of the shows at Walton Arts Center, but if they end late, I don’t want them around the drunken population of Dickson.
And I also know for a fact that I am not the only one.
It’s not that I’m worried about getting mugged on Dickson…for that, I think the police do a great job. But it’s the exposing the children to the scantily-dressed women and the drunk and loud guys. Personally, I think WAC should have gotten out of there years ago…it would do better (more attendance) if they would move to another part of town. There’s a place for everything…Dickson is not the place for WAC.
Sorry for re-posting this…I accidently posted this in the wrong section earlier.
Hail, Cesar!
You are welcome to stay home and watch “18 and Counting.”
There is a world out there that will always remain beyond the control of Ronnie Floyd et al.
Oh, TB, this is getting wearisome. You really don’t know the history and geography around Dickson Street. That’s just a fact.
The three violent deaths of the transitional period–late eighties into mid-nineties–are just as relevant to the dangers of Dickson Street now as the two violent deaths of the mid-seventies to the early eighties were to the dangers of Dickson Street up to and including the transitional period.
Dickson Street was safe enough for me then, and it’s safe enough for me now. It’s probably a little less safe for me personally today, because I no longer fit in or belong there. It’s probably much safer today for banker’s wives and and wine-and-cheesers, to say nothing of frat boys, than it was then.
There are, as Urk pointed out, other dangers and violences associated with the college bar scene. Dickson Street has those now, but it’s not the sort of danger that’s going to worry your average Walm-Art culture shopper–more like: “Mom, do you know where your kids are? Sniffing at crystal in cute little cars, getting nailed against dumpsters behind townie bars”. (Note: The murder in that song happens not in the bar district but out in the woods where the townies hang out.) The Dickson Street which has been dead for some time now was (jeebus help me) a unified scene with much less class distinction than today.
That Dickson Street is dead, killed by the impact of a rectilinear turd expelled with malice aforethought from Sam Walton’s oh-so-charitable anus.
It is not coming back.
So drink up, shriner! Everyone’s day comes. I figure the New! Improved! Dickson Street’s day will come when someone plays the cynical trick on it by which the New! Improved! Dickson Street was cynically created. I’ll be sorry for my friends who will be hurt financially, and laughing at the rest of it.
It’s just a big joke, TB. Didn’t you see Watchmen?
John:
RE: Those crimes being relevant today: No, they aren’t.
What happened 18 years ago near Dickson, but has not happened since, is irrelevant to Dickson Street today.
Just as the crimes of 20 years ago in and around downtown Little Rock are irrelevant to the River Market and the Clinton Center in 2009.
They simply do not matter and are not a reflection of what the area is today. Ergo, they only matter as a reminder of what the area was before hugely public and private investments took place.
Time passes, things change, etc. etc.
Truly, the only relevance those things have to Dickson Street today is to serve as a quaint reminder of what was once perhaps a less desireable area from a crime standpoint.
I hear there was some extremely violent activity on East Dickson years ago. In fact, I can’t really understand why anyone would feel safe living there. An out and out battle (part of an actual WAR) was fought there. Oh my, what does that say about E. Dickson and Headquarters House?
South School used to be where a lot of the development was taking place. There were even some really hoppin juke joints out that way at one point in time. My parents saw Ike and Tina Turner review out that way once. Should we designate it as an entertainment district even though most of the bars closed down 30 years ago? Afterall, 20-30 years ago is as relevant as last week, right?
Arguing about Dickson with you is wearisome, or tiresome, as it were. But thats only because your postings have revealed a vague agenda of nostalgia for a street that never really existed except in your imagination.
The dichotomy is pretty interesting. It goes like this:
Dickson was better before WAC (when all these alleged heinous crimes took place). WAC “ruined” Dickson.
Dickson is dangerous (i.e. nothing really changed), therefore the WAC should move.
So, which is it? Did the WAC ruin Dickson via gentrification or not?
I have a hard time following your logic. And FYI, just because I didn’t drink on Dickson in the 70s doesn’t mean I don’t know the street’s history. My family has called Fayetteville home since the 1800s. I’m fairly confident in my knowledge of Fayetteville and what the WAC has meant to Dickson.
You fail to make a coherent point.
Since your family has been here for so long, TB, I figured you already know, but in case you don’t or maybe forgot, I’ll lay it out real nice and slow:
In the mid-eighties, cynical swine realized they could make money by telling a Big Lie: Dickson Street is too dangerous for you to walk down. It was a lie then and it’s a lie now, but a very effective lie which was used to destroy a culture for which I had a great love (and yes, a more-than-vague-less-than-healthy nostalgia which I am trying to root out). It was a crime not of passion but of avarice. Useful idiots thought the Walm-Art Center’s primary purpose was cultural, when was actually to make money (the cynical swine’s interest) by destroying a somewhat oppositional culture (Sam Wal-Mart’s interest).
Let me say what I said in the beginning again: “Dickson Street is at least as dangerous as it was in the eighties. Probably more so, since there are a lot more bouncers and other vigilante enforcers hanging around.” I’ll stand on that statement.
Now, will you stand on this one: “Dickson Street…was once perhaps a less desireable area from a crime standpoint”? I say that, if you do, you are buying into the Big Lie. I will also say that, if that were true, the City of Fayetteville has the crime statistics and the wherewithal to prove it.
The official silence on that point is quite loud.
You got me on nostalgia. I hate nostalgia. I’m trying to unlearn it for Dickson Street. But I was there, took notes, shot photos, wrote about it, and got it in print at the time. You weren’t there. When you say “a street that never really existed except in your imagination”, I think, “Pot calls snowstorm black.”
One small-but-not-minor point: Do you really not remember the drop-off to the creek, between George’s and West Street, so steep there was a guardrail to guard it? If not, then I suppose you’d have a hard time believing a man was found dead there, but it’s a true fact. Why don’t you ask your older relatives?
(Yes, I didn’t attribute a quote from Jason Isbell above. So, sue me. Sue me. What can you do me?)
I still don’t understand what point you are trying to make.
If Dickson Street is as dangerous as the 1980s, as you claim, then the 80s weren’t that dangerous.
I think it bears looking at from a per capita crime viewpoint.
There are many, many more people on and around Dickson Street now than there were in the 80s. Hell, there are many, many more people on Dickson per year now than there were in the mid 1990s. The average crime incident per citizen visit to Dickson, I’d wager, is muc lower now than it was then.
The whole point of the whole arguement is that a dickhead charged with promoting our city falsely characterized a certain beloved section of it as having a crime problem.
Nostalgia is ok, but what I find as I get older is that most people aren’t nostalgic for places and things as they are nostalgic for their youth. Being young is typically great fun regardless of venue.
The WAC is a great thing. It brings so much culture and experience to the people of Fayetteville. So many cities of comparable size would do almost anything to have a place like the WAC in the heart of their towns.
Was crime a red herring used to justify bulldozing some old buildings and putting up a parking lot? Maybe it was.
Dickson Street, like it or not, has thrived since, and while I personally also prefer a lot of the older, funkier aspects the street once had, I have to acknowledge the economic impact of the revitalization of Dickson, and the benefits that have come from our town being a vital, beating heart of NWA.
Trails and parks and the like require revenue. Since we don’t make anything in Fayetteville except football teams and college graduates, Dickson is a vital part of keeping cash in the coffers so we can keep our parks and our trails alive and buzzing, and our quality of life high.
Every city faces a balancing act of progress and quality of life. Fayetteville has, in my opinioin, walked that tightrope fairly well throughout the years.
Finally, as much as some older timers yearn for a day before the big brick behemoth took away their watering hole, there’s an entirely new generation looking back at their prime on Dickson and can’t imagine it without a WAC, with its rose garden, bongo players and street musicians loitering on its steps. To them (us) the suits and high culture, clashing with and coexisting with the hippies and homeless are as much Dickson Street as George’s.
“If Dickson Street is as dangerous as the 1980s, as you claim, then the 80s weren’t that dangerous.”
Exactly.
The rest of what you say, I mostly agree with, in some places disagreeing with you on the basis of our differing (I infer from reading you) values.
Now let me nitpick a little:
“The average crime incident per citizen visit to Dickson” is maybe not the relevant statistic. While I’m not in favor of tourists getting knocked in the head (at least, not most tourists), crime per resident of the neighborhood matters more to me.
As to the cultural benefits of the Walm-Art, I guess. For me, I don’t much care about classical music. I don’t care for Broadway plays. I don’t care much about high performance art of any sort. I do care about Levon Helm, but I’ll truck over to Cain’s Ballroom (talk about a treasure!) and pay thirty bucks, show up early, and get a seat right up front if I go see him on this tour. The idea of paying a hundred bucks for a good seat and forty-five for a bad seat sums up what I dislike about the place. But the Walm-Art does serve some peoples’ interests, and I’m told they do good (if often expensive) programs for kids.
So, I guess. I went to two events there, my then-fiancee’s son’s band recital and Pat Romanov’s production of Arcadia. I hated the theater where Arcadia was put on–very lousy seating arrangements–and what can I say about a junior high band recital? It sure was in a big room.
TB-
Let me explain a difference you don’t seem to understand about Dickson Street of Long Ago.
People had fun, people made money and nobody sucked the city for favors or held it hostage to do so.
It was a cultural scene that brought folks out to enjoy the talents of the community rather than importing culture to present to the “ignorant masses.” New bands had as good a shot as the “name bands”. The “name bands” played town because it was a cool gig — not a guaranteed cow for their corporate sugar-daddies to milk.
I remember a conversation I had with a supporter of the (relatively) recent Fayettenam Smoking Ban. He told me “we need to make all the bars non-smoking because good bands won’t play thre non-smoking clubs”. I asked him “If the good bands won’t play non-smoking clubs and the entire town is non-smoking clubs, where will the good bands play?” I don’t recall a coherent answer to my question.
Life is not a tidy suburb. It is not milk-toast served with boiled chicken. Life is a series of adventures to be braved, enjoyed, frightened-by and survived.
If you want the milk-toast, please stay home and enjoy. Leave life to those who would live it.
-k-
FWIW- John A Arkansawyer
the old Sho’ Nuff Barbecue isn’t there anymore. They tore it down about six months ago.
It’s as gone as the Rockwood — maybe more so.
Dickson Street is gone, Kirby, at least the one I knew, and it is not coming back.
The news abou Sho’ Nuff is not unexpected–I’m sure developers look at that part of town and rub their tentacles in avaricious glee–but still saddening.
@skalmt — apologies for revisiting this page, but I have to say MAMA DEANS, indeed. Righteous catfish. Thanks for the tip!
“(and very delicious) Catfish Hole restaurant out on Wedington”
too greasy comes to mind, I had much better!
[...] our former A&P chairman said last month that Dickson Street was unsafe, Fayetteville was not impressed. Not just because it isn’t true but also because Dickson [...]
[...] whole ‘darker side’ of Dickson comment really upset me, and a whole bunch of other people, too. One of them is Heather [...]
As a native LRer who now resides in F-ville, I find 40/29′s findings terrifying. In fact, the next time I’m in LR getting my head petted by some homeless wanderer next to Big Whiskey’s who just demanded ten bucks for me to park in “his friend’s parking lot”, I’ll be sure to warn him not to head up here cause Fayetteville gone to pot!
Thx 4 the laffs, 40/29!!!
I know some areas of Dickson, certainly the side closer to the UofA are somewhat creepy. Especially that new parking garage… last time I had to use it (since parking is awful on Dickson) I was the only car there, and some creepy out-of-towners kept asking us weird questions, while we were cornered in the garage.
Awesome discussion guys. I’m a Siloamian who has to commute past the Catfish Hole everyday to work on 6th… I mean Dr. Martin Luther King Jr Boulevard…
(off the cuff, I prefer the catfish place outside of Goshen better, and why doesn’t that moron have a turn lane in front of his business anyway?)
Ok, that out of the way, I feel I am a member of one of the good bands, though we haven’t made a transition to Dickson yet. But, not because False Hope is trying to stay away. At this point in our fledgling upstart, it’s the Holy Grail.
So for anyone to say it’s dangerous after some of the places I have already played music in, is crazy.
Being a transplant from Arizona has some disadvantages as far as history, but Siloam had a murder right across from the police station a few years ago and I don’t feel that anyone should consider two blocks away from the Dogwood Festival as dangerous…
Actually just found this tonight so sorry if I’m opening an ‘old’ can of worms here…
-aric
Oh, and as a PS… The liberal media is what caused the majority of fear about our economic crisis IMHO So I don’t even watch TV anymore…
If the “liberal media” (you typed it as two words, but I’m not sure you used it as such) is responsible for “the majority of fear about our economic crisis”, it is only because
a) the conservative media were too busy stirring up fear about everything else, or
b) conservatism is largely responsible for, and “conservatives” largely complicit in, our economic crisis.
I believe it is a big dose of both a) and b).
Don’t worry about posting– this is an important can of worms regardless of its age. And good luck with your band.
True. I started to just put “media” but I was afraid I would offend some one here at the Flyer. So far, I haven’t seen anything I would complain about in their reporting.
Personally, when the government is paid to make our decisions for us, this is the stuff that happens.
I thought it was funny (as a side note). I saw an ad recently in the classifieds: Someone actually paid to put this ad in the paper! “I would like to sell my taxpayer shares of General Motors.” And went on to give the guy’s number. I think that’s going to be my quote of the week! heheh.
-aric
Yeh the drunk frat boys make it dark? What a joke. 40/29 need to worry about more importent issues….
@ Kirby Sanders – I write for the Free Weekly I’d like to contact you. My e-mail is d.r.bartlette@gmail.com.
I just spent I don’t know how long reading all these posts since Delani’s comment showed up in the recent list. I just wanna say to all of you: thank you for the entertaining read and the walk down memory lane. And I’m glad that TB finally understood John’s “If Dickson Street is as dangerous as the 1980s, as you claim, then the 80s weren’t that dangerous.”
And I know that this is an old post, and I’m not trying to stir anything up, but I wanted to throw my two cents in (which, it looks like, might just turn into a 5-spot…)
I was on Dickson “back then” and I’m “back” on Dickson now. I’m pretty sure I know who Urk and John are, and I DO know who skalmt and Kirby are. Am I nostalgic for the old Dickson? D*mn straight. And I absolutely REFUSE to set foot in STIR or Busterbelly’s or any of the frickin’ upscale Martini bars that never have live music because of it.
I understand skalmt’s point: “I guess I’m still missing the part where Dickson is dangerous? I just tend to think that a few isolated crimes do not = danger. Couldn’t this argument be made for any part of town that one is looking to label “dangerous”? Find a neighborhood you want to argue and research crimes comitted and presto changeo you have danger Will Robinson….”
But Urk answers that the best with “In the mid-eighties, cynical swine realized they could make money by telling a Big Lie: Dickson Street is too dangerous for you to walk down. It was a lie then and it’s a lie now, but a very effective lie which was used to destroy a culture for which I had a great love.”
But was the “Old Dickson” better than the “New Dickson?” I don’t know. I think for the freaks and the artists and the musicians, yes. But you have to forgive TB (and yes, this is that age thing you said this wasn’t about. But it’s only an age thing because you had to be a certain age at that time) although he may have been in Fayetteville and on Dickson street occasionally back then, he may never have actually EXPERIENCED it.
And I think that’s what I miss the most about the “Old Dickson.” Not the cheese fries at ROTC, but hanging out in the booth all day and watching people come and go and talking to people of all different backgrounds. Not the live (ahem, LOCAL) music in the garden at George’s, but sitting at the picnic table under the wisteria and saying hi to everyone as they passed by on their way to the dance floor. Not the poetry readings at Anna’s, but enjoying the peaceful garden and hearing the ART that expressed all the different opinions of the artists.
And if you haven’t been one of the welcomed outcasts that the people of Dickson back in the day accepted as one of their own, with the freedom to be yourself without worrying what they might think, then I can see how an outsider would think Dickson was dangerous back then.
In fact, one of the main reasons I hung out in Rogers Rec so much is that, to the Sorority girls and Frat boys it was the most dangerous thing to do on a Friday or Saturday night – to pop in to Rogers and buy a pack of smokes. I loved the nervous glances they cast around as they made their way to the bar!
But there’s parts of Dickson that are better than they were and wouldn’t be there if it weren’t for the WAC. I think that maybe, over the last few years, Dickson has started to learn to get along with itself again. And that’s where Urk’s point comes in once more: the powers that be don’t like the NEW Dickson just like the old powers that be didn’t like the OLD Dickson, so we need to watch out because someone just might be gunnin’ to take down this Dickson as well.
Like Urk said, “Knowing your history helps everyone.” So here’s a little bit of mine:
1985: My best friend and I walked down Dickson where we were accosted in front of the Library by some redneck in a pickup truck (complete with shotgun in the rack) accusing us of being “fags.” After correcting his terminology for homosexual women, we proceeded to Lily’s. No fear.
1994: I took my 3-year-old daughter to George’s for happy hour where she danced on the tables to Punkinhead. No fear.
2009: My husband and I took our 13-year old son to hear some music at Smiling Jack’s (which, technically isn’t on Dickson), and then on a walk up and down Dickson. We listened to a band at Jose’s for a bit, and then walked past all the bars and back around through the parking lot in back. The great folks at Smoke & Barrel even invited us in (including our dog), saying “come on in, it’s a family establishment!” No fear.
So is Dickson safe? No. It’s not safe. And it wasn’t safe. It wasn’t safe from people that wanted to take down ROTC and the Grill and put up The Three Sisters back then, and it’s not safe from people like Pat now.
And I’m glad to see this much attention being paid to that.
As a 10 year resident of Dickson St., I just like to add a couple of comments.
1. Pat Gazzola’s comments about the “Dark Side” of Dickson are asinine!
2. As a Fayetteville resident and a long time season ticket holder at the WAC, the truth is that decision on where to place the New WAC will come down to Alice Walton. If the Alice convinces her siblings that the new center should be next to her art museum in Bentonville, The Walton Family Trust will make a $10-20 million donation that NONE of us will be able to match. That family’s decision alone will dictate where the new facility will be built, not Marrione, or Gazzola.
3. The place where Matt Jones was arrested for drugs a couple of summers ago IS NOT a hot spot for drug use. It is the municipal lot right behind the bookstore and Wasabi (yes I saw the idiot throw away his NFL contract!). Every night there is a “crazy” flurry of parking tickets, occasional DWI pull over, and the random shouting match at 2:00 a.m. Not very Dark by my standards!
4. There have been more incidences of problems at Dickson St. Theater lately that could qualify as “Dark”. Underage drinking, fights when the place empties out early in the morning, and public drunkenness area a few of the issues the FPD is currently struggling with. They deploy half of all the officers in Fayetteville to the Theater at closing. A couple of weeks ago there was a large fight when a drunk (driving the wrong way on Locust) hit one of the illegally parked cars on the side of the street. Several residents called in the disturbance and meetings were held with the FPD about what could be done to reduce the disturbances to home owners on Locust.
Yes, there are a couple of incidences where I felt unsafe. Being in the middle of a fight, and gunfire (in the air) outside my house a couple of summers ago make for a shocking awakening, but that is part of the gig about living on Dickson St. You just don’t take your kids to Dickson at 2:00 a.m.!!
[...] What “darker side” of Dickson Street? [...]
Shame on public officials giving Dickson street the stigma. It might not be a place I would take a 10 year old after 11pm or so, but really what 10year old is up that late? The only reason people have that opinion of Dickson is because city officials have put that idea into their minds. The only “dark side” of Dickson I can think of is the police in their dark blue uniforms arresting people when it isn’t needed.
“4. There have been more incidences of problems at Dickson St. Theater lately that could qualify as “Dark”. Underage drinking, fights when the place empties out early in the morning, and public drunkenness area a few of the issues the FPD is currently struggling with. They deploy half of all the officers in Fayetteville to the Theater at closing. A couple of weeks ago there was a large fight when a drunk (driving the wrong way on Locust) hit one of the illegally parked cars on the side of the street. Several residents called in the disturbance and meetings were held with the FPD about what could be done to reduce the disturbances to home owners on Locust.”
@Mullva,
Hi, Wade Ogle here. I am the co-owner of the Dickson Theater. Firstly, we (my partner & I) are present every time we are open. We are more than happy to talk with you or any nearby residents. We want you to be happy. Having said that, we feel the Dickson Theater has unfairly become the “go to target” for any problems in a six block radius. The statement that 1/2 of FPD officers are deployed to the Theater at close is simply untrue. We voluntarily give last-call at 1:30am and close at 1:40am in an effort to assist the police’s needs to be elsewhere (Dickson & West) at 2:00am. The same amount of police we see at close move to Dickson & West at 2:00am. So, there is no “extra deployment” for us that I can see. We are a large dance club that is doing close to 3 times the people-traffic of any other club on Dickson. We do occasionally have problems (all clubs do) but I think we’re average with the volume of people we do. Complaining of public drunkenness on Dickson St. at 2:00am is unreasonable in my opinion. I’ve personally lived, worked and performed on Dickson since 1987 and intoxicated patrons of Dickson finding their way to side streets (free, legal parking) is inevitable. I’m not blaming you but you do live right on top of the action. I would think a “good with the little bad” philosophy would be somewhat understood. Again, we want you to be happy and would love to talk with you in person. It’s just got to the point for us that any negative activity happening in a six-block radius is automatically attributed to us. And, being there until 3:00am, we see a different view. The only time a Locust St. resident has come over was to complain about the loud music. The police, after investigating, quickly figured out that it was a private event at the Garden Room which had nothing to do with us. Anyways, thanks and feel free to stop by anytime. Wade
Dickson St Theater is a mess.
The only thing that attracts a more lowlife crowd than popular country music and line dancing is a bar that features popular hip-hop music.
Your patrons are jerks, Wade. I hate even walking past that place, especially at closing time. Its the worst place on Dickson and I wish it would go away.
@Mullva – Hi again. Re-reading your entire initial post, I see you are more tolerant, understanding and realistic regarding Dickson St. than I first picked up on. I kind of zeroed in on the Dickson Theater aspect. I’m admittedly a bit sensitive because, as I mentioned, I feel we’ve become the catch-all target for any negative activity in that area. I apologize if any of my post sounded condescending. Not my intention. Again, we would love to meet with you to try and fix any problems your seeing that may stem from our customers. Thanks, Wade
Oh, according to the news reports I read, a recent drive-by shooting originated from a fight at Dickson St Theater. Thats nice. Way to Keep Fayetteville Funky!
@burgerboy: I’m not going to trade internet jabs over the worth of the Dickson Theater with an anonymous poster. I’m a real person. If you have issues with the Dickson Theater other than it not being your cup of tea, I’d be happy to meet with you and hear you out. Thanks, Wade
And Wade, one of the reasons you don’t want to trade jabs is because you don’t want to talk about how your patrons were involved in a DRIVE BY SHOOTING, HERE IN LITTLE OLE FAYETTENAM shortly after leaving your “establishment”. That sure makes for a “vibrant” city, doesn’t it? Those are the people we need on Dickson…
Wade,
As a long time resident and property owner down on Dickson St., I’m quick to point out to all my fellow neighbors that you cannot bitch about your house being hit by golf balls if you live on a golf course! But there is a line where noise, crowds, and parking move from part of life, to annoyance. We must all balance the businesses and homeowners that choose to make Dickson their home.
In my post above you seemed to doubt the number of officers I referenced headed toward DST at closing. I did not make that number up. That quote came directly from the police themselves. In a meeting with the top 4 of the FPD (minus Chief Tabor) after the car accident on Locust, that number was furnished by the department as part of their strategy to handle DST. The comments from the police were that DST is the biggest problem they deal with on Dickson. They told us that the problem child label does move from bar to bar, but right now that label is on DST. I do think you club may be a “catch all target”, but specifically we know who most of your patrons are when the trouble starts. They all walk out with their bracelets still on! The same bracelets we have to pick up in our yards ever Saturday and Sunday morning. I don’t think in my case we are just picking a club that is playing music that we don’t like.
To be fair, the FPD also told us that despite all of the problems with DST, they have been receptive to work with by the FPD. They have worked to try and help with crowd control, and underage drinking.
The main point of the meeting was how to quell some of the problems on Locust St. Now noticed I said Locust specifically and not all of Dickson St. There is a specific reason that we singled that location out. Yes, it is our home addresses, but it is also the only street that has single family homes directly off Dickson (between 71 and campus). That point makes that little street right beside your club unique and special. What we talked about were ways to disperse the DST crowd without “pushing” the crowd down Locust. Yes there is free parking that is a draw, but we chastised the police for not doing anything about the illegal parking on the East side of one-way Locust. It is my opinion that the accident probably would not have happened had there not been cars parked there illegally for the drunk to hit in the first place.
To me, here is the crux. I get that you are running a legal business in a place that has the proper zoning. The problem lies in where the police are calling the DST the problem child, us residents are calling DST a problem place, but you think you are being unfairly fingered. The wreck on Locust shook up the block a couple of months ago. Going forward, there is going to be more scrutiny by your neighbors. The new this past weekend was of the drive by shooting that happened out on Weddington, but the argument started at DST. I get that you can’t help what goes on once they leave your club. What I am afraid of is that if this incident happens on Dickson St., all of NWA will be up in arms and screaming about how “dark” Dickson St. is!! More than that, if this happens on Dickson St., your club will be hung out to dry as an example. This week I sent my aldermen notes asking for increased pressure on DST. Matthew Perry lives just a couple of blocks off Dickson, and gets many of the problems that we all face. I asked to make sure we are doing everything we can to keep Dickson as safe as possible. Once again, I didn’t call for closing the rap club, just asking for increased awareness of the problems we are facing, and a greater scrutiny of DST and it’s patrons!
My biggest fear is that something will happen on Dickson before the Walton Arts Center makes a decision on where they are going to build their new facility. I firmly believe that Alice Walton’s decision will be the final answer on this drawn out question, but negative sentiment by the suburb dwellers in Rogers and Bentonville who will look to move their corporate money out of WAC’s programs if they feel it is too dangerous to go to the big city.
As a resident and a property owner, the last thing I want to happen is a major incident on Dickson. But the truth of the matter is that DST has the loudest, rowdiest, and shown to be the most violent clientele of all the clubs on Dickson St., and I don’t think that is just me placing your business a catch-all!
http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=Dickson+Theater+fayetteville
@ Mullva: I appreciate the reasoned response and am truly interested in doing anything we can to make your problems better. As you mentioned, we feel we have a good relationship with the police and interact with them openly. I’m surprised to hear that they gave you that number. I’m out there at closing nightly directing people traffic. Once, I leave for the night, I see exactly the same police overseeing West & Dickson. Also, as I mentioned earlier, we’ve agreed to close at 1:40am specifically to help matters. I apologize for any litter. We clean the Liquor store and the Ozark Mtn. Smokehouse lots. Tonight, I will stand outside and try to clip n’ trash people’s wristbands as they exit. I spoke to an officer last night re Locust. He relayed to me that the main complaint was illegal parking. However, he added that after “extra-patroling” the area for several weeks, they only wrote one illegal parking ticket. Re idiots who can’t read a one-way only sign, I’m not sure what to say. I do think it would make more sense to have it one-way…the other direction. In other words, no easy access for your average driver on Dickson.
We’re well aware that our business “attracts” some undesirable people. Some can’t seperate hip-hop music as fun/guilty pleasure and their fantasies of being Tupac Shakur. However, we do everything we can to “weed them out”. We have the strictest dress-code in town and you have to pass by 4 people before you can even enter. It’s hard to tell who the bad guys are when everyone is in a Polo or nice button-up shirt. Re the “drive-by” shooting, it was told to me by officers who worked the call that the shooter guy insulted (verbal) the victim guy in the club. Later, in great wisdom, the victim went searching for the shooter. Upon finding him, the shooter guy commenced to shooting the guy’s car. Asinine, idiotic and unbelievably stupid…on both guy’s parts in my opinion. But, there was no fight, altercation etc… at the club. The police informed us of the event the next night because they knew nothing visible had happened at the club and we were unaware of the later incident. We did asks the police to warn them of criminal tresspass if they entertained the idea of ever returning. I don’t feel like we “set the stage” or enabled that incident. I have zero interest in making a living off “thugs” (contrary to BB’s opinion). I feel it’s often a “one bad apple” scenario. Again, it migt be good to have a residents/business owners meeting. I appreciate your thoughts. Wade
I completely agree with Wade’s appeal to the drive-by connection to DST claim. That is probably the most absurd thing I have read on this thread, by far. A crackpot line of reasoning, BB. Perhaps you should stick to burgers and leave the debate to the folks who don’t use the transitive property as a means for an argument. I am extremely pleased to see Mr Ogle’s (as well as all other business owners from Dickson) posting. This is how garbage – like Gazzola’s – are taken to the curb: communication, folks.
Thanks Jack. I don’t think it was the police’s or the NWA Times intention to sensationalize the DT connection (although I think the NWA Times has dabbled in TMZ-like reporting lately). The only tie was the victim’s claim that an insult occured there. In fact, I’ve heard the friction initially started at another bar the previous week. I don’t know and don’t care. I’m sure they visited a fast-food joint, shopped at Wal-Mart and got gas at a C-store earlier in the day as well. It was two sets of idiots engaging in very bad behavior and personally, I hope they both get what they deserve. The Dickson Theater caters largely to a non uber-local customer. People from Fayetteville, Ft. Smith to Bentonville. People with a strong locals idenity may not like it but Dickson St. is a weekend destination for thousands of non-locals. And, they’ve got every right to be here. We (our city) depends on them. I’m not excusing bad behavior. The law applies to all. I’m a frequent FF visitor and simply wanted to say I see a very different view of this “DT as problem child” thought and to extend a civil hand to say I’m very serious about co-existing peacefully with my business and residential neighbors.
@Mullva: Last night, a staff member and myself cut the wristbands from every exiting customer. I hope it eliminated that issue. I wanted to thank you because it had the very unexpected (but very effective) benefit of staggering our exit flow to the point where there was never a crowd of any size outside.
Honestly, it pointed out clearly that a neighboring dance club has zero staff outside while mass loitering is occuring. Feels a bit like a double standard.
Anyway, the police gave us a big thumbs up.
Thanks Wade!
I will check with my neighbors, but I think it was a good couple of days. I heard of no trouble this past weekend. I had planned on making a point to stay up and watch what was going on in the neighborhood on Saturday, but it didn’t happen.
Was there a full moon on Saturday night? The crazy ass with a cast and a knife getting tasered at Stir, and I had the WORST experience on Dickson St. in my adult life on Saturday. My plan was to stay around and watch what was going on in the neighborhood at closing got derailed. I had a run in with the narrow minded “professionals” at your neighbor across the street Fix (Willy D’s). I drew the short straw amongst my friends for designated driver that night, was drinking water in a bar of massively drunk folks, and it went downhill from there. But that’s another story.
Thanks for the armband patrol! I do appreciate the effort.
I do think it would be a good idea to get together with the 12 or so houses there on Locust. The folks who live there are reasonable, but very influential. You don’t want that group on your wrong side. The guys at the Smokehouse found out the hard way. I am traveling this week on business, but I will stop by and introduce myself when I get back.
Wade, thanks for commenting on the issue. Not everyone realizes that some (if not most) Dickson St. business owners have strong roots in Fayetteville and care about how their business impacts the area. Thanks for addressing it here.
Thanks guys. Like I said, we are willing to make better any issue that we realistically can control. The wristband cutting really, really helped us with outside people traffic (also, just an FYI, I saw a handful of armbands last night (Sunday) scattered about. I know exactly what colors we used and these (green) were not our’s). But, for instance, I see no way I can identify or control bad drivers (or LOUD talk) on Locust. That street should seriously be one-way in the other direction. The residents could easily navigate in and out but it might keep the “out of towners” out of the neighborhood.
@ halfdeserted: My partner and I also have the Crown Pub, Lightbulb Club and Tangerine. We were also owners of the original JR’s Lightbulb Club. So yes, we threw our lot in with Fayetteville’s a long time ago :)
This is a story from KNWA Northwest Arkansas News on July 20th.
Fayetteville Police say they’ve increased the “amount of officers they make available to patrol the Dickson Street area.”
The reason? Officers say simply more people are out there this year than in years past.
http://nwahomepage.com/content/fulltext_news/?cid=106142
I hear people talking about the “unsafe” environment and all this. well Dickson is where the bars are primarily located in town, but you have to put them somewhere and there is less drunk driving if they are on a strip than if people are driving from bar to bar. plus alot of students can walk home from dickson, which cuts down on young drunk driving (not saying it doesnt happen, it does, but thats universal, it happens in dry counties too)
I think the only place I’ve seen consistent violence on Dickson is Stir, I’ve seen more racist frat boys fighting homeboys than anything else on dickson. Its usually over some chick but hey thats how it goes. I dont normally ascribe to stereotypes but in the last two years I’ve seen AT LEAST 7 fights right outside the doors of that bar, and comparatively less violence everywhere else on dickson, maybe three other fights on other areas (one in front of the gypsy, one in front of the boom boom and one in the walton art center parking lot)
anyway, my point is, you stay out of the bars that violent drunk idiots frequent, you tend to avoid the BS that comes with it.
In 4 years of drinking on dickson I’ve never got in a fight or felt unsafe, even when witnessing other fights, there is always a cop there within minutes.
I think fayetteville is plenty safe personally..
Yeah, all those “racist fratboys” commit so much crime in Fayetteville. :rolleyes
What the hell has happenned to the Dickson Street Theater???????
I just moved back to Fayetteville about a year ago, and I can remember going to this place and watching a TWIN PEAKS MARATHON about 7 years ago…
I used to play in “The Barrio Band” , and we used to play at this place all the time..The crowd was diverse and very good…
That was 2002…Fast forward to 2009…
Awful….
I lived in a VERY big city in Florida during my time away from Fayetteville, and I will tell you now, this place would be seen as a “Dangerous” place to be if it was in the city that I lived in….
And that city was MIAMI!!!!!….
Hip-Hop + Alcohol = Trouble…
Hey f@ck you, Mike!
Give all the old man lawn rants you want, but leave hip hop out of this.
Alcohol + Idiots= Trouble
@ Mike: this will be my last post regarding the Dickson Theater. The Dickson Theater routinely does about 600 people a night. That’s about 590 more than any Twin Peaks marathon we attempted. And no disrespect to the Barrio Band but no local bands have been able to really crack that room (including myself). Of the approximately 600 people we’ll do on a weekend night, an easy 65% are female. Obviously, they’re not sensing the impending doom. I have personally been at virtually every show, event and weekend dance night since we opened. In all that time, the only harm that has come to me (and I am usually right in the middle of any issue) was when 3 methed-out, ex-prison homosexuals (white guys) jumped me and pretty much beat the crap out of me on a Sunday night which is our gay-friendly drag show night. I think the chances of that happening again are slim. Again, I’m not saying it’s a trouble-free venue for future saints. Fortunately, there’s several bars/clubs to choose from. If older/mellow is your thing, let me suggest the Crown Pub.
There’s no such thing as a trouble-free bar, but everything I’ve ever seen Wade associated with was as non-violent as circumstances allowed. He’s a good guy in an often ugly business. I’m not sure Fayetteville deserves him.
“He’s a ugly guy in an often good business”
-fixed.
“I’m not sure Fayetteville deserves him.”
-no one else will have me.
@Wade
Golf clap!!
“That’s about 590 more than any Twin Peaks marathon we attempted.”
“Golf clap?”
Is there a cure for it?
“3 methed-out, ex-prison homosexuals jumped me and pretty much beat the crap out of me on a Sunday Night”….
Yet another example of great things to look forward to at the Dickson Street Theater!!!!!!!!
@ Mullva – don’t get me wrong. I love David Lynch and can take the blame/credit for pretty much all of those failed early entertainment attempts. I think my crowning achievement was showing “Withnail & I”. If I remember correctly, it was only Burt Taggart and myself in attendance. Amazing film :)
@ Mike – C’mon man. I offer humorous anecdote and you cheapshot me. FYI, that fight occurred at the property line because I would NOT allow those idiots entry. Unable to accept it, a punch-up ensued. They were arrested and went to jail. As far as I can tell, I did my job. While I can’t say for certain, I imagine people like this having difficulty just about anywhere they go. Watch out for ‘em. They’re out there.
Art Amiss brings that many people to the Theater twice a year. Every time (except for once) without using hip hop.
Truly, this is the thread that would not die!
so Dragonlady, if ArtAmiss broadened it’s definition of art to incorporate hip hop then it could draw twice as many people, more often than twice a year? That’s your point, right? And Mike, there’s probably a fainting couch around here somewhere if it all gets to be too much for you. All those exclamation points can wear a guy out.
@ Mischki upthread, thanks for the kind words. I blame it all on Arkansawyer and Joe Strummer.
@Wade & Mullva – reading through you all working out how to handle the intra-neighborhood tensions was very cool. Kudos to both of y’all.
-Now, it strikes me that the elephant in the room in this discussion about the DST is that it draws a large black crowd, right? for a long, long time the musical economy of Dickson Street was based mostly on white folks playing their versions of musical forms that had been developed and nurtured previously by black audiences, blues, R&B, & soul. When Dickson first stated becoming an entertainment area those styles were much more firmly “black” (in practice, not in essence) styles than they are now, but it was mostly white performers who got the gigs on the street and mostly white audiences who came there. Except for the Theatre it still is, as far as I can tell.
Now, I want to be careful here. I’m NOT calling anyone who doesn’t like hip hop, or is aggravated by the activity at the DST a racist. That’s NOT what I’m saying. But, a club that draws a large black audience to Dickson on a regular basis is a new thing in the identity of the street. Because of the difference that it represents, I think some folks are going to think the worst of it, notice trouble that occurs there and with those people more than they notice trouble at other bars, and react more vehemently to what they notice. Really, I’m curious about how this is playing out in town, and not just in this discussion here.
i booked 607 and conduit family for art amiss at the dickson theater many years age. it ruled. that was before the dj / dance craze so you probably don’t remember.
Roger, I wasnt’ trying to malign Art/Amiss, just applying some sarcasm to try to get at what point Dragonlady was making. Sarcasm probably uncalled for.
Maybe some of you guys can fill me in on this one…
What is up with all of the wacky religious people that hang out near STIR on the weekends!!!!
One of those guys always has a sign that says something like “IF YOU ARE DIVORCED, YOU WILL GO TO HELL”, or something like that…
My personal favorite is “THE PARTY ENDS IN HELL”…
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I talked to one of them once and he claimed that he has never sinned in his life!
I find all of these posts VERY interesting..
Another thing that I have been wondering about is the state of George’s these days.. I was talking to some people recently who told me that George’s now has high priced drinks and is a very “Yuppie” crowd..
I have not been to George’s since I moved back to town. Is that what George’s is like now????????
I wouldn’t say it is a yuppie crowd, but they do have high priced drinks. Plenty of other walks of life go there (depending on who is playing)… especially on Sundays when they have no cover and monster mug nights (meaning cheap beer). I’ve heard that called “Hippy church”.
Mile– If you’re so curious about George’s (Ha– curious, George’s) why don’t you go to George’s and find out how it has changed? You’re the only person who knows what it was like for you when you used to go there, so you’re the only person who can really answer your question.
Let us know what you find.
I don’t know about that….
Remember guys, “The Party Ends In Hell”…..
By the way, why did Peter Frampton have to post-pone his show…
Did his 1975 Guitar Voice Box Break or did he just not “Feel Like We Do”…
?????????
[...] in June, a group of locals organized Take Your Kids to Dickson in response to some talk that our downtown entertainment district was [...]
It’s that Tiffany Stewart on 40/29. It should be a case study on her. She makes stories sensational almost daily.
Great article. I hadn’t seen the 40/29 segment but I just checked it out. Because I’m in television I understand how important it is to get ratings and viewership but exposes like this are all hype.
A story begins with a passing thought (Is Dickson St. safe?) the producer likely brought the question in and the studio decided they would likely get more ratings if the answer was ‘no’. During shooting that bias is carried with the crew and it becomes less likely they’ll roll camera on anything that suggests the opposite of their thesis.
Sadly it doesn’t matter what the truth is, people are more likely to watch and remember a news story about a murder two towns over than a story about the hero next door who donates a kidney. That’s why news stations lean that way especially when there’s competition in the area like KFSM and KNWA.
Dickson St. is totally safe. In fact, I’ve gone there many times, not to drink but to listen to some bands, grab a sub at Jimmy Johns and then go home.
The people who think Dickson is unsafe are the spineless and unedecuated who refuse to believe it’s ok to drink a thimble of alcohol… and anybody who would voluntarily drink it is going to hell and therefore a bad person. They’ve never been to Dickson and they never will, so they just make up stories in their heads of what it must be like based on the two incidents that were reported in the news over the past 5 years.
And let’s be honest about Mr Catfish Hole’s motives.. he just wants to use “the dark side of Dickson” as an excuse to build the new event center right next to his Catfish Hole. I’m sure he’s slipping the news crew a few extra sides of “hush puppies” to drum up that buzz.
Dickson street must be one of the safest areas of town, the police patrol it heavily. It’s only a couple blocks from the station…
As a patron of Dickson St. for 35 years, I can attest to the “fact” that it is now more homoganized than ever, just like the powers wanted it. A lot of the flavor is missing and I miss it.
@Chris “It’s that Tiffany Stewart on 40/29. It should be a case study on her. She makes stories sensational almost daily.”
Just FYI, it’s the powers above at ABC & the Hearst Corporation that want the news sensationalized, NOT the individual reporters. Many of their stories are already outlined for them, it’s just their job to make it locally focused.
The darker side of Dickson comes in the form of the obnoxious popped-collar frat boys and mini-skirted sorority girls that frequent the martini bars there.
Turns out Dickson street is really unsafe for children. I just saw five guys beating up a baby. An infant. Couldn’t even open its poor eyes…. I’m moving out of town because I can’t handle the crime. Especially around Dickson Street.
Dickson street has to be the safest “dining and party” destination I’ve ever seen! Growing up on the West Coast I can’t name one downtown area anywhere that has lower crime and higher (though often un-needed) police presence. As for kids, hey if you don’t want them to see drunks then get them home before 2am!! From 6 to 10pm it’s all diners anyway down there. “Darker Side” LOL we live in NW Arkansas, LOL
I love how this thread just won’t die.
Jabberjaw, you’re right it’s not really dangerous, unless you’re the kinda person that a fratboy feels like hassling. But just because ti isn’t dangerous, that doesn’t mean it isn’t dark. Personally, I think that less booze and more psychedelics would make it a better place.
Mr. Gazzola is a great guy and I love the Catfish Hole, but if he thinks Dickson St. is dangerous, he should hang out on Betty Jo (a few blocks from the Catfish Hole) on a friday or saturday night. I used to live there and I would bet a catfish dinner that Betty Jo gets WAY MORE police calls than the Dickson St. area. I don’t even think it would be close.
Mr. Gazzola seems so nice, too. Maybe he just doesn’t understand the economics of a college town, or of entertainment districts? Or the arts? Surely, he’s not using a city-wide office to drive business from its center to businesses at the city’s fringe.