Investigation clears detective in bank shooting
Detective David Williams, the 11- year veteran police officer who shot and killed bank robbery suspect Matthew Andersen, was cleared of any policy violation yesterday following an internal investigation.
The shooting occurred last Wednesday after officers responded to a 911 emergency call reporting a robbery in progress at Arvest Bank on Garland Ave.
According to a release issued by city staff, Fayetteville Police Chief Greg Tabor said the suspect, who was reported to be in a white passenger car in the bank’s drive-through lane, presented a note to a bank employee demanding money. The note implied accomplices were watching the bank’s entrances and stated that if the robbery demands were not met, the employees “were in for a painful experience.”
Upon arrival, officers located the suspect near the drive-through window and announced their presence. The suspect began backing away from Detective Williams, who was blocking the front side of his vehicle. In doing so, the suspect nearly struck two other officers and despite being warned to stop and show his hands, the suspect then began ramming an occupied vehicle behind his car several times in an attempt to escape.
From the release:
Due to the suspect’s reckless actions with seemingly no regard for the safety of those around him, Detective Williams fired his service weapon a total of three times at the suspect to stop the threat. The suspect was wounded as a result of the shooting and his injuries proved fatal.
No officers were injured during the altercation.
The department’s policy states that an officer may use deadly force to protect himself or others if he has reasonable belief of immediate threat of death or serious physical injury. The internal investigation revealed that Detective Williams did not attempt to use deadly force until such time that he realized Andersen was not going to respond to their commands and began ramming the vehicle of an innocent bystander. Detective Williams, as well as other officers present, say they felt that the potential threat to them and others presented by Andersen’s reckless actions called for the use of deadly force to end that threat.
The Washington County Sheriff’s Office is continuing its own independent investigation of this incident. Once complete, that reports will be forwarded to Washington County Circuit Prosecutor John Threet for review.
Comments
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By CAK on December 9th, 2009
Could they not just have shot out the tires? This is ridiculous. These cops are so trigger happy, aren’t they trained to deal with these situation without shooting someone? I’m scared to even live here anymore, might get shot for ANYTHING or NOTHING at all!
By CAK on December 9th, 2009
And furthermore, they could have simply walked over to the car and stunned him. He didn’t try to run, he barely hit the car behind him. I was in the area at the time and saw most of this. The cop got his adrenaline rush and started shooting, HE was the dangerous one, could have shot the people in surrounding cars or in the area. WHY DO THEY NEVER TALK TO WITNESSES ABOUT THESE SHOOTINGS? There is a REASON none of them every get reprimanded!!! They DO NOT work for us, its us against them at this point and if you believe otherwise your sadly mistaken and could be next!
By CAK on December 9th, 2009
Matt Andersen’s memorial will be held at the First United Presbyterian Church this Saturday, December 12th at 1:00pm with a reception following.
The family would like any donations to go to the South Dakota Wildlife Parks Foundation http://www.parkswildlifefoundation.org/default.aspx
Arkansas has no facilities or ANYWHERE for the mentally ill to go if they need someplace to go and recoup for a little while to be monitored. So I guess we just send them to jail or shoot them here in Fayetteville. This was a REAL PERSON, a brother, a son, a friend. These cops know what they are signing up for and they should not go out in the streets with the intentions to harm. I know this police officer didn’t but I was near the scene and this was a senseless act of violence. The real people in harms way were to people around the scene, and the people in the car being hit, not because they were being hit(he barely tapped the car), but because they were in the line of fire.
By Sorry on December 9th, 2009
Man was robbing a bank, and using a vehicle as a weapon. I would have shot to kill if I were there and carrying a firearm.
By Michael on December 9th, 2009
And shooting out the tires would have done what exactly? It wouldn’t have immobilized the vehicle like you obviously think…
Mental issues or not, the guy was committing felony bank robbery and attempted to flee.
By FullTilt on December 9th, 2009
@Michael – “Mental issues or not, the guy was committing felony bank robbery and attempted to flee.”
Neither of which carry the death penalty.
By burgerboy on December 9th, 2009
Another thing to consider is that according to the note passed by the suspect, he had accomplices, and implied that people in the bank would be harmed if they tried to leave the bank. You have an entire bank full of people who are essentially think they are being held hostage.
That turned out to be untrue, just like his ability to harm them.
Hindsight is always 20/20. This situation was serious to all involved when it was happening. In hindsight, it may have been a rushed judgement, but 99% of the blame still falls on the guy who initiated the situation.
I agree that Arkansas needs to invest in more mental health services and that it would prevent some situations like this. That would be a worthwhile investment.
By yrfuneralmytrial on December 9th, 2009
“Hindsight is always 20/20. This situation was serious to all involved when it was happening. In hindsight, it may have been a rushed judgement, but 99% of the blame still falls on the guy who initiated the situation.”
-You’ve perfectly summed up what I tried to express (over and over) in the other related thread.
By Coralie Koonce on December 10th, 2009
My understanding is that the majority of police calls have to do with domestic disputes, rescuing people in dangerous situations, mentally ill individuals, etc. Aren’t police trained to deal with those situations? Increasingly it seems they frame everything as cops and robbers. Then they shoot either bullets or tasers–the quick fix.
Tasers: Besides the 10-year-old in Ozark, there was a 10-year-old boy someplace else who was fighting two deputies with a pipe and a stick, and throwing pieces of wood at them. Bad boy, two deputies can’t handle, taser him.
Then another incident, a woman called the police to help her when her mentally disturbed husband got out of the car and took all his clothes off. She had got him to take his medicine but it would not take effect immediately. So the police came and tasered him in the heart area (for being naked on the highway?)–he died.
Now a man in Benton County claims he suffered a massive stroke but was resisting medical treatment when deputies arrived, entered his house without a warrant, tasered him, and took him to jail instead of the hospital–he is suing the Benton County Sheriff’s Office. Hard to imagine a person refusing medical treatment after a massive stroke and then surviving several taser shocks in addition. He must have an iron constitution. More facts will come to light in the court case, no doubt.
More than 100 people, I don’t have the exact number, have died from being tasered.
By Michael on December 10th, 2009
So you would rather have deputies man handle a 10 year old, than tase him which on average results in fewer injuries. You gonna take up for the cops when in wrestling a child to the ground they end up breaking his arm, dislocating his shoulder or causing some other injury?
By Coralie Koonce on December 10th, 2009
Why aren’t police trained in the martial arts? These use the least necessary force.
Do you have any stats about relative harms of tasering and “manhandling”?
If tasers are capable of sometimes killing an adult, what about the effects on a child with 2/3 the body weight?
I don’t have the stats, but do you?
By David Franks on December 10th, 2009
Ms. Koonce–
Of course the police are trained to handle the situations you describe. Domestic disputes are typically the most dangerous calls that the police respond to. They are now trained to use tasers when that is shown to be, statistically, the best technique for addressing a particular situation. This is the same way that doctors apply treatment– based on statistical outcomes.
A bank robbery in progress is “a case of cops and robbers”, and it was perfectly appropriate for the police to frame the incident as such. Here the police had no knowledge of the robber’s mental state, and they couldn’t use a taser on him because he was in a car.
The man in Benton County, having suffered a stroke, was probably not in the best shape to decide for himself whether to seek or refuse treatment. In that case, based on the description of the victim’s behavior, using a taser wasn’t the egregious response– taking him to jail rather than to the hospital was.
I’m sure that police training includes some fighting techniques that are similar to martial arts in their use of leverage and the use of an opponent’s own strength against him. But they are trained also to avoid hand-to-hand combat for apprehension because it is generally not as predictable as other methods.
I see no reason why the police, who put their lives on the line in every shift, should have to go out of their way to be physically assaulted or worse by anybody who, for whatever reason, cannot adhere to a basic level of civility.
By burgerboy on December 10th, 2009
I am inclined to believe that tasering has come into vogue to protect the police from being injured. Our police carry guns. How much sense does it make to expect our police officers to physically fight and restrain people when there is a possibility of a person disabling an officer, taking his weapon and killing him? Tasers allow the police to disable a person with so-called non-lethal force. I see the usefulness in this. Maybe police should be equipped with other non-lethal weapons. But how do we do this? Should every officer carry an alternate weapon with rubber bullets? Since a call like this one is an emergency with the possibility of people being harmed or killed (according the suspect’s note and actions), whoever is closest has to respond. Its an interesting discussion for sure.
By Michael on December 11th, 2009
Rubber bullets are potentially lethal just like tasers, many people have died from them. Admittedly often from errant shots hitting the person in the head or neck. I’ve never cared enough to compile stats, but most the cases I can recall where someone died from having a taser or stun gun used them there were mitigating factors primarily pre-existing heart (and other medical) conditions and pace makers.
By shakingmyhead on December 11th, 2009
Martial arts, hmmm? Like, maybe, put a small choke hold on that kicking/screaming 10 year old? Or maybe a knife-hand punch to her solar plexus, or slight heel kick to her jaw? Or a nightstick force hold on her elbow? Sheesh!?! You know what I think might have worked? I’m thinking a bucket of cold water, maybe two. And then a good switching from her parent. I agree use of a taser was terrible in this case.
Shoot out the tires? Lady, you’ve seen too many movies. Mad, broke, insane, addicted, or just plain criminally-inclined, when you rob a bank, you have chosen an action that may very well get you shot dead. This is one of our town’s finest police detectives. He took quick, decisive, EFFECTIVE action, which he is paid for, and trained for. He deserves a commendation, not petty criticism from pantywaists.
By CAK on December 11th, 2009
Ohh, Sooo Sorry! I guess I’ve just lived in to many big cities where the police don’t shoot anything that moves! And if they do, they get punished for it, unlike here in South. Why, when we have a relatively low crime rate, are civilians getting shot at such a high rate, its a legit question people! These guys (cops) know what they are signing up for. Maybe if they had to get an education and were paid adequately this wouldn’t’ be an issue. Who knows, all I do know is that civilians are getting shot at a much higher rate in NW Arkansas then most places in the country. Its getting beyond ridiculous and is going to have to be addressed at some point and time.
By CAK on December 11th, 2009
AND BTW, I have witnessed the cops in a bigger city shoot out the tires of a perp and it WORKED! This is the mentality that scares me, JUST SHOOT THEM and ask questions later!
By shakingmyhead on December 11th, 2009
Big cities like New York, I suppose, up NORTH, where several better-paid police officers shot and killed ONE panhandler yesterday? I suppose they should have shot his shoes off, hmm? Yeah, life is sure better in them big cities like New Orleans and Detroit and Houston and Memphis, murder capitals of the U.S.
Are you aware of this detective’s education, and community service? Obviously not. You are simple kneejerking.
Cite ONE fact to support your lame idiotic statement that civilians are shot more here than than elsewhere? I’m waiting.
By CAK on December 11th, 2009
Look, “shakingmyhead” you are obviously a very angry person and I have no intentions of fighting with you on a blog. I’m stating my opinion and I’m sorry that makes you so upset. I know he police office in the particular incident is a good citizen and works with several non profit agencies in the area, because I do as well. No name calling necessary, fighting with angry strangers is not my idea of “fun”.
By Coralie Koonce on December 11th, 2009
It bothers me that in this bank-robbing case and also a couple years ago in the shooting of a mentally handicapped man lying on the ground, it was the last-arriving officer, with the least knowledge about what was going on, who fired the shots.
Regarding the pan-handler incident in NYC, the fleeing suspect allegedly took a couple shots at his pursuer with an automatic weapon. This would seem to justify immediate action, especially on crowded city streets. It wasn’t any case of police shooting an unarmed man–but that does happen, even up North (or West), often involves black victims, leading to big community conflicts.
I appreciate that police are sometimes in danger and have to act fast. But how was it that the London bobbies for many years were able to police one of the world’s largest cities with only nightsticks? (I understand that has changed.)
From what I read, tasers are being over-used across the country.
Some people in this thread have the attitude that when an individual flouts authority, no matter the person’s age or mental condition, he (or she) deserves the highest degree of physical punishment.
So let’s distribute tasers to parents so that they can deal with their toddlers who are having tantrums.
By David Franks on December 11th, 2009
CAK–
shakingmyhead appears to be less angry than snarky. In fact, you seem to be more angry than shakingmyhead, but your anger is unfocused. You said “all I do know is that civilians are getting shot at a much higher rate in NW Arkansas then most places in the country”, which reads as a statement of fact, not an opinion. Shakingmyhead asked for verification.
If you want to have “fun” on a thread like this, think first, then post. That will make it more “fun” for the rest of us as well, even if it eliminates the cheap amusement provided by ill-considered posts.
By David Franks on December 11th, 2009
Ms. Koonce–
If parents deal properly with their tantrum-throwing toddlers, they likely won’t feel a need to call in the cops when the kids reach the age of ten. But this thread has nothing to do with that incident, and nobody here has suggested that tasing a ten-year-old was appropriate.
The shooting of the mentally-handicapped man is more relevant than the tasing, but not entirely parallel: that incident involved mistaken identity (as an escaped fugitive) rather than a robbery in progress. The victim was not a perpetrator, and the circumstances, I think, are sorrier all around. If this robbery had occurred before that shooting, would you have mentioned the robbery as relevant?
By CAK on December 11th, 2009
Umm, David Franks I will post whatever I want whenever I want, thank you very much. Just because my opinions differ from yours, it’s not going to keep me from posting and responding. IF you don’t like it, don’t read it. I didn’t say I wanted to have fun on this thread (way to take it out of context). Being badgered by people with nothing better to do isn’t enjoyable.
By CAK on December 11th, 2009
Notice who started the name calling and who is telling people on here not to post if their opinions differ or are deemed not intelligent enough to post.
By jesse on December 11th, 2009
Nationally, 1 in 39,000 police calls end in suspect/s being shot–CNBC news, this morning.
By Coralie Koonce on December 11th, 2009
I think this thread has to do with a pattern of excessive use of force, whether with bullets or electric shocks, that may or may not be happening 1) in Northwest Arkansas 2) across the country. So it is relevant to bring in other incidents besides this attempted bank robbery. Tasers and guns are different levels of escalation.
CAK, calm down. Tell us the facts as you know them.
By shakingmyhead on December 11th, 2009
Still waiting for any citation, quotation, study and/or fact to support Koonce’s overblown “opinion” that more people get shot here by police than other areas.
One notices her avoidance of this request. No anger involved, at all, just questioning a dubious statement.
And still awaiting an answer to my question regarding this specific detective?
By Coralie Koonce on December 11th, 2009
Shakingmyhead: Excuse me, sir, you have mistaken me for CAK. I DID NOT say that more people get shot here than other areas. I have no evidence one way or another. Please read more carefully.
By Coralie Koonce on December 11th, 2009
Now I wish that I had not used my own name, if people are going to pin statements on me that other people make.
By CAK on December 11th, 2009
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out that in a city with the population of 70,334 and the crime index being 515, that 4 shootings in a year is excessive!
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0429-02.htm
Police do not report data that includes killing people or brutal force of victims. Just because the data is not there, because it HAS NOT BEEN REPORTED does not make it untrue.
And with that, I won’t be bullied on this cite again! Thanks!
By David Franks on December 11th, 2009
Oh, no: thank you.
By David Franks on December 11th, 2009
Ms. Koonce–
I take the tasing of the ten-year-old girl to be an anomaly rather than part of a real trend, but I see your point.
As for posting under your own name, you must admit that it makes it easier for the rest of us to discern that you didn’t make the statement attributed to you. I knew it wasn’t you.
By burgerboy on December 11th, 2009
39,000 police calls = 106.8 police calls in day, if there are 39k in one year.
I don’t have any idea how many police calls our police do per day, but when was the last time the police shot someone in Fayetteville before this one? I guess it was the stabbing murder off Poplar over the summer. Before that? Seems like it was over in Mariah H when that guy was holding a hostage. I think that was in 2006 or 2007.
I’d guestimate that on average, our police in the past 5 years shoot a perp one to 1.5 times per year.
Anybody know how many calls our police respond to per year in Fayetteville?
By G. A. Levanter on December 13th, 2009
I don’t live in Fayetteville, but I had lived there for many years (steps from Dickson Street) and never really had a problem with the police. I was was really alarmed when they shot the owner of that steakhouse. In that situation it seemed to me that they were well apprised of the situation. The outcome of that ordeal wasn’t exactly optimal. Whe the young woman was inadvertently shot earlier this year– well, we can all agree that that was purely tragic. It was a failure on many levels. (Perhaps the cops were too aggressive; but I cannot imagine that either one of them were “trigger happy” at the time.)
The incident at Arvest Bank was senseless. The perpetrator was isolated, confined, did not brandish any type of weapon, and his means of escape were extremely limited. We can all agree about that, right? Was he not in a car? Did anyone see a firearm or an explosive device? He was blocked by automobiles both fore and aft? Am I wrong?
I don’t care what procedure might dictate– a round fired into a tire is better than one applied to a human body. As this was not a vehicular chase, and the facade of that part of the building is stone (if I remember correctly) then deflating the tires should have been a “no-brainer.”
Of course an automobile can maneuver on rims alone, but to what degree? Better than a Crown Vic? I doubt it.
Dammit. The police should have immobilized the vehicle (and I think it was, or could have been) and then they should have cleared the streets. There isn’t a time limit to resolving these situations. I think “patience” should be the primary policy– we can throw compassion further down the list if that will assuage 90% of us. I was born in ‘75, so I’m not exactly sure what function police really fill in society. I’m sure they do something, but I cannot define it. I abide the law to a “T,” but they still scare me– in Los Angeles, in New York, in Fayetteville and everywhere else. In my experience they: 1) fill reports about personal property thefts that never become resolved. 2) Issue tickets to me when I have been amiss of the driving codes. (My citations have been absolved, but I’ll never see that “BJ and the Bear” lunch-box again.)
I do agree with those who contend that physical contact is not an option. The notion of the Martial Arts, or any other type of hand-to-hand contact with anyone, is wildly absurd.
Tasers– I’m with Mr. Franks. Hopefully it was an isolated case based upon poor judgement.
I weigh about 140 lbs, and my standing heart-rate is about 84 bpm. I think of a taser as a potentially lethal weapon. (To me, at least– but if a 10 year old girl can take one I guess I can too.)
By Morgan Dooley on December 14th, 2009
“I was born in ‘75, so I’m not exactly sure what function police really fill in society.”
In your experience they just file personal property theft reports and issue you driving tickets? That may be just your experience but I can assure you it’s not all they do. I admit I don’t know what the year of your birth has to do with it but I suggest talking to some of the victims from the recent mass murder at Fort Hood. I am guessing they might tell you the police fill other functions aside from just writing tickets and making reports.
By Coralie Koonce on December 14th, 2009
Local taser cases are not isolated.
See http://www.alternet.org/blogs/rights/115518/naked_man_killed_by_cop’s_taser_in_texas%3B_uk_journalist_investigates_taser_abuse/
http://www.locan.com/dpp/news/crime/Elderly_woman_shocked_with_taser
By Arg on December 15th, 2009
What about the 70 year old grandma that was tasered in Texas….I watched the video she was not threatening to the officer. It seems that our justice system is not a system at all, not one that protects and serves. Don’t misunderstand, I admire the men and women that are serving on all levels to insure our civilized society, but when the police become judge, jury and hangman, it is no longer civilized, nor a true society. Wasn’t the man in the vehicle innocent, or presumed innocent at the time he was shot…the first time, or the second time…or the third time? At what point was he found guilty? And was his guilt, or his threat equal to the death penalty issued at the scene? Question: why were there three ‘policemen’ and one detective at the scene and of the four, the investigative officer is the only one that fired his weapon…um several times and the police officers never fired? This seems curious, did I misunderstand the events?
By G. A. Levanter on December 16th, 2009
@ARG I agree completely.
@Morgan. All I wished to express this that the only interaction I ever have had with the law have really been quite casual. I have not lived in the society where enforcement officers are as admired as they had been in the past. Why? Because for as long as I can remember they have been feared at least as much as they are revered.
For you to compare the Ft. Hood incident to the Arvest Bank event is a bit of a stretch. Don’t you think? If Anderson had brandished a weapon, if he wasn’t isolated, then I could accept the use of lethal force. The incident at Ft. Hood couldn’t have been more different.
We ask a lot of law enforcement– but perhaps what we are asking for mostly is for them to reserve their last resort for when such action is warranted. I’m content to pay for my transgressions, are we to allow them to not pay for theirs?
By private on January 17th, 2010
*REPOST*
It’s NOT proper police protocol to shoot out tires! Detective Williams used his best judgment, and possibly saved the life of a citizen or fellow officer.
I wish that the community knew what kind of person Detective Williams really is before they snap to the “trigger happy, rogue cop” judgment. Detective Williams is no “Dirty Harry”. He was a paramedic for over 10 years, he started a helicopter rescue squad, he does EXTENSIVE work with the Peace at Home Family Shelter, he is a leading advocate against domestic abuse and crimes against children, he has been instrumental in changing domestic abuse laws here in Arkansas, he even teaches officers how to deal with handicap people…I can go on! All I’m saying is he’s not some “trigger happy rogue cop” like some have suggested. He is the kindest person I’ve ever known. Of course this is hard, but unless you are put in his situation, you can’t judge him or his actions. He felt there was an immediate danger and he followed proper police protocol. At least the good guys came home safe!
By Innarested Observer on January 18th, 2010
And a confused young man with mental health issues died.
By Pissed! on January 22nd, 2010
Here we go again, another unsubstantiated police shooting in Bella Vista where they won’t even give out details about it! NONE!