Finding a functioning parking kiosk late last week was a little trickier than normal, thanks to some vandals who struck in the Dickson Street area.
Fayetteville Police Chief Greg Tabor announced Friday that the police department had received a number of reports since paid parking began regarding incidents of criminal mischief, including spray painting and other damage done to parking kiosks.
Out of Order
City officials estimated the damage from the recent incidents at approximately $15,000, and reminded citizens that the acts of vandalism are costly to tax-payers in both repairs and lost revenue. Many of the individual acts could constitute a felony and according to a news release issued Friday evening, anyone arrested will be prosecuted “to the fullest extent of the law.”
From the release:
Damage to the essential equipment at these parking lots could result in the parking lot being closed and unavailable for public parking.
Anyone witnessing acts of vandalism or with any information of past acts of vandalism is asked to call the Fayetteville Police Department at 587-3555.
this paid parking plan is really working out great!
“Damage to the essential equipment at these parking lots could result in the parking lot being closed and unavailable for public parking.”
“Essential equipment?” Unless vandals stole the asphalt, the parking spaces are the same as before and should always be available for the public to use. If they disabled a swingarm gate that prevents entry or exit, take the gate off until it can be repaired.
We don’t need and shouldn’t need kiosks to park.
“Damage to the essential equipment at these parking lots could result in the parking lot being closed and unavailable for public parking.”
It’s the Megatron theory of management…if they can’t have it nobody will.
These people are idiots. We all hate having to pay a whole 5 bucks to park. But guess what? Paid parking is here. Deal with it. Vandelizing the kiosks only hurts the everyday taxpayer.
Good news is that it was easy to find awesome parking on dickson this past weekend
OffCamber–
You’re right– we don’t need and shouldn’t need kiosks to park. They should have required everybody to buy an electronic pre-paid parking pass, mounted in the windshield, scanned and debited automatically as you enter and leave the lot. But that might have seemed cumbersome and expensive.
I didn’t have to use a kiosk to park last night. I parked for free, just like I always have. I really enjoyed the walk from Block St to Brewski’s.
You’re a bunch of whining whiners.
What was wrong with plain old parking meters? I’m not being snarky, and I probably am being ignorant, but I don’t understand why we went with the kiosk system.
@anne – One of the reasons the city cited for using kiosks was because they’re all linked together. In other words, as long as you remember your parking space number, you can add extra time to it from any other kiosk without having to walk all the way back to your car. Another feature that is said to be coming in October is the ability for the machines to send you a text message when your time is about to expire so you could reply and add more time without having to go outside at all.
anne- I live in a town with downtown paid parking and good, ol’ fashioned parking meters. And maybe that’s simpler, but you have to always, always remember to have change in your car and always remember to walk back to your space and put more change in, or get a ticket. for me, the hassle there is much worse than the actual cost of parking & it sounds like the kiosks go a long way towards eliminating that.
@Todd – Thanks for clearing that up for me – ignorant no more!
I’m with OffCamber, though, that the lots shouldn’t be unavailable if the kiosks go down. There’s no way those things aren’t going to continue to be on the receiving end of drunken rage every once in a while.
If undoing the work of vandals only hurts taxpayers, then what was the initial $841,000 in city funds spent to install the equipment? A warm taxpayer hug?
Hey, these kiosks are all near WAC. They should play to their strengths. Put a velvet curtain around the graffiti, and charge $100 a ticket for the privilege of seeing local artists’ works. Mayor Jordan could even proclaim a Disaffected Urban Arts Day. It could extend the heck out of our “regional draw!”
That’s dumb. Hope they get caught.
STFU. Stupic article. Yeah, that’s just what every city needs…more ways to screw the public. That’s all paid parking amounts to. It was fine like it was. Just more frivilous spending that will only line the pockets of the Fayetteville elite. Move along people, nothing to see here.
Trollll–
Cities don’t screw the public– that’s what developers are for. Cities are the public.
But cities and developers working together can really screw the public; see Nock, Alexander, et al.
I’m not surprised.
There are some people who are SUPER pissed about paid parking. Adam Fire Cat was absolutely livid about it and it’s one of the reasons he’s running for Ward 2.
Anyone else hearing a rumour about the city wanting to make a mandatory bicycle registry? Something that you must pay and enroll into if you want to park your bike anywhere on city property downtown I think?
@Just askin’
false. Just a rumor.
More importantly don’t go giving them ideas!
Just a note, the machine pictured was not “Out of Order” due to vandalism, I believe it to just be faulty equipment or poor programming. The day after I snapped the picture with my phone the sign was removed and the machine was working again…until about 11p.m. when it failed again.
Vandalll, you pay for city water and sewer by the gallon. Part of that goes to capital construction. What’s so different about paying for parking by the hour on asphalt paid for by the city?
I hate that these criminals have chosen to voice a protest by vandalizing property of the citizens of Fayetteville. They should protest where it is most appropriate .. the ballot box this November. And other citizens should keep an eye out and report such activity when they see it.
@TBG – The machine on the other side of the lot was down that day, too. Both were back in order when we checked this morning.
Also, the “graffiti” on the concrete is courtesy of city employees or contracted laborers who completed a job with the exemplification of a strong Fayetteville work ethic. Step 1: Wait until the last minute to start a job. Step 2: Rush the job. Note: Its not important to actually complete the job correctly, just get it close. Step 3: Don’t worry about cleaning up after yourself, someone else will take care of it. Step 4: Revel that you were only a week/month/year past your scheduled completion date and that if some aspect is incorrect, someone else will probably be the one to deal with your mistakes.
@Todd Gill: I believe programming updates were completed in the past day or so that hopefully have fixed some of the issues with the pay stations. A unit did try to charge me $6 for 5 hours yesterday. I believe there was a $5 maximum per day/night publicized not to mention that at the rate $1/hr the machines math did not seem correct to me. I left and parked elsewhere.
TBG–
Why would you want to pay city employees to clean up chalk and utility marking paint when a few rains will wash it away for free? Especially when somebody will need the markings when they have to come back and correct the mistakes that must have been made? You’ve obviously got enough to complain about already– no sense asking for even more.
robertocampana–
Nock, Alexander et al screwed the city as a whole (heh, heh– he said “whole”) while they were screwing the public individually.
btw, there are some sophisticated cameras mounted downtown with police watching and recording. remember that next time you do a line or get frisky in your car. or pee. or dump your booze. or smack someone. or steal. or damage parking kiosks.
@OffCamber, anne – Answer me this: If the city were to respond to vandalism of kiosks by throwing the lot gates open, what happens when the damage is repaired and the lots close again?
Wah, Wah, Wah. Boo – hoo. If you want to do something about it, vote out the bastiches that put it in place. That’s the way this country works. Sorry you don’t like it. Sorry it’s not what you want to hear. Sorry you can’t have the whole world given to you for free.
Stop whinin’ and cryin’ and for the love o’ Mike stop tearin’ stuff up that doesn’t belong to you.
Grow up.
Just my opinion. To which their own everyone has the right.
(But they don’t have the right to vandalize ANYONE’S property, whether it’s the City’s or a private citizen. I hope they get caught. And punished.)
this program is such a clear and blatant gouge for people who use Dickson St. that makes me ill to drive in the area, and it makes me ill to read the city’s propaganda and spin on its implementation and everything about it. Something has gone down hill in the city government-the attitude toward the Dickson area is severely flawed. This is a place that tax and tuition-paying residents use to go to class, get lunch and coffee, and come for entertainment at night. It is not a pure entertainment district where people come expecting to spend money because the entertainment factor is such a huge draw-it is NOT Bourbon Street. Dickson is tied in to the campus, to the local business community. To me, personally, the WAC lot represented the goodwill of Fayetteville toward its students-free parking reasonably close to campus was a gesture of support, and it mitigated the horrible parking situation on campus. Now the city is imitating the university! Gouging people! This program just makes me sad.
@leavn – They’re not gouging anyone. Quit being a wuss and go find out where the free parking is. I parked on Block last week and I enjoyed my walk down Dickson.
I daresay that using the free parking on Block is the perfect setup for a traditional pub crawl from the top of Dickson to the bottom and back.
Did I mention I parked for free?
Comment removed
http://nwaonline.com/news/2010/aug/24/paid-parking-stations-damage-estimates-unverified/
Totl Bstrd –
How long do you think that’ll last?
@robertocampana – Nothing’s more satisfying than complaining about things that have yet to occur.
@roberto, I don’t know but I’m not going to whine about it right now while it’s still free.
When and if it does change, then I’ll go park in the library, or the Church of Christ on church st, or on Arkansas Ave (after 6), or at any of the dozens of free parking destinations that exist. I’m not going to whine about having to walk three blocks. Even my fat dad can walk three blocks and enjoy it.
Why wont administration come out
And be honest with us? It just might be that they Have no idea what’s going on with the whole situation. So come on mayor Jordan we want to hear from you.
Mike Clark –
I’m not complaining about free night and weekend parking on Block Street. In fact, I’m surprised that street was excluded from the plan in the first place, and I wonder how long it will last.
Why would the city not see those spaces as part of the paid parking revenue stream?
@robertcampana – We do plan to update the single-space meters with the new system within the next couple of years. Bringing pay-as-you-stay, credit card processing, and txt message renewals to the rest of our paid parking areas is something we need to do when we have the money for it.
No one thinks adjusting the cost or schedule for the single-space metered spots is a good idea. In a decade? Maybe. It all depends on how fast Fayetteville grows.
The bears–
What, exactly, do you think the administration is hiding? In what respect have they not been honest? If you are reacting to all the questions posed in the Flyer threads, I’ll suggest that many of them aren’t really questions, but frustrated rhetorical venting– as your post might be. Most of the rest of them could have been easily answered online, had the person asking bothered to look. You could probably get an answer to the few remaining by calling or e-mailing somebody at the city.
Far better to piss and moan, accuse, dream up a conspiracy, and wish for that free lunch.
mpetty –
So do you mean that eventually, the city will charge at night and on weekends for all on-street spaces that have single meters? What about the square?
Is the long-term goal to make sure that anyone who parks a car anywhere near Dickson Street pays to do so?
Also, has the city staff done any research into other towns that charge people on nights and weekends for on-street parking? I’ve been to two cities that do this: Dallas and Kansas City. Dallas charges for parking in Deep Ellum, but only at night and on weekends. Daytime weekday parking is free there.
Do you know of others?
David Franks –
What free lunch? Don’t we already pay taxes for upkeep of the streets?
David Franks-
Not hiding, just not giving out all the information that is available. As citizens and taxpayers of Fayetteville we are entitled to this. Also my main point was the fact that we have two city offices basically calling each other liars. Really sends a good message to the folks out there. “Remain calm. All is well!!”
@robertcampana – No, I don’t mean that.
The long-term goal of the City is to provide enough parking.
I don’t know precisely what cities staff looked at in developing this program.
robertocampana–
Judging from the condition of some of the streets and gutters, and the condition or absence of sidewalks, the taxes directed to transportation infrastructure are too low.
The desired free lunch menu would seem to include
— Free parking for U of A students, most of whom don’t pay Fayetteville property taxes
— Future need for parking facilities and infill retail development
— Well-lighted parking within a few steps of your destination
And, as it addresses a particular complaint:
— Benefit to Fayetteville of the WAC, even if you don’t give a damn about it
The bears–
Have you tried checking the city website for that information? That’s how the city gives out information these days, particularly as the newspapers in Fayetteville are of little use. As for “two city offices basically calling each other liars”, different departments have different sources of information, and the information changes from day to day, particularly if a police investigation is involved.
First you complain because the city doesn’t give out information. Then you complain because the city gives out information. I can only conclude that you’d rather complain than look into things.
David franks-
It’s called communication they should talk one another, but we all know that does not happen. Where is the press person, you know the one that we pay $70,000 a year to Handel these things.
RE “the one that we pay $70,000 a year to Handel these things”: Do I hear a “Hallelujah”?
The bears–
Of course, if the press person were the only person who ever said anything, somebody would complain that the city was trying to control information.
via Dan Craft and Skip Descant
Damage Estimates Unverified
http://nwaonline.com/news/2010/aug/24/paid-parking-stations-damage-estimates-unverified/
David-
Or could be the one to gather all the facts and informs the public? Anywho, this whole thing has gotten out of hand and I hope it improves soon, because it us making my city look bad.
Ttl Bstrd –
So voicing a complaint about what I perceive to be a bad city policy is “whining”? When your government does something you disagree with, it’s best to just shut up and accept it lest you be guilty of “whining”? Grow up.
David Franks –
Many students do pay property taxes, albeit indirectly, in the form of rent. They also spend money, which contributes to the city’s coffers. And if the city’s streets and gutters are in bad shape, or if more sidewalks or light posts are needed, then why shouldn’t everyone pay for it? But why are you even bringing up those issues? The money from paid parking is going to build a deck and to subsidize the WAC, not to pay for new sidewalks and lighting.
@robertocampana – No… going chicken little on Block’s future parking status is what makes you a whiner.
@Bstrd. I do use the free parking. Doesn’t change the fact that there is a huge parking lot stupidly sitting right there that is virtually empty b/c people want to spend their extra 5 on an extra round.
Ttl Bstrd –
From Petty’s comment to me re. Block Street parking spaces: “We do plan to update the single-space meters with the new system within the next couple of years.”
I assume he was referring to the spaces on block that already have had daytime meters for years.
I’m not fretting about the sky falling here. I was asking why anyone would expect those spaces to remain free when nearly everything else around them has become paid.
If you can manage to engage in a civil discussion about a controversial city government issue without resorting to ad hominems, by all means, join us. If not, keep it to yourself. The grownups are talking here.
did I say gouge? It’s a complete and total gouge. And worse, it is constructing a future for Dickson Street that is form fitted to making money off of the extracurriculars, game day, big bar weekends, etc; and not toward the purpose that the area actually serves to people who live there and go to school.
robertocampana–
Even assuming that the property tax per living unit in an apartment complex is commensurate with the property tax on a house, any student who shares a house or apartment but who has his own car is paying less property tax but using roads just as much. I could, of course, have worded that item better. In any case, U of A is rather a large group to provide free parking for, as a previous post had suggested.
If parking is paid for by those who park, then general funds redirected from parking accommodation can be used for street and sidewalk maintenance; thus, general funds can be used for general benefit as you suggest.
I addressed the issues of the parking deck and the WAC subsidy; any failure to notice, understand or care does not mean that I didn’t. Basic parking is a basic service. Convenient parking is an amenity, and people should expect to pay for it. Do you really think the city should wait until there is an urgent need for a parking garage, then try to figure out what to do? See how that’s worked out for the county courthouse.
To be fair, in all its history, Dickson Street businesses have sprung up with the primary intention of making money off College students. Games and other “extracurriculars” are just an extension of that original purpose.
Not a single building down there was constructed nor was a single business opened to “create ambiance” in lieu of making money.
Not a single business down there could survive solely on the business provided by the 2-3,000 people who live within reasonable walking distance to Dickson.
Dickson hasn’t served only the needs of the immediate neighborhood for at least the past 60 years.
If anything, a more densely developed Dickson area will alleviate some sprawl that might have otherwise drifted into other areas of the city.
That said, I haven’t spent a dime on Dickson since parking became pay. I don’t know when I will, either.
I’m with you burgerboy. Some folks just don’t get it.
@burgerboy
Well, your right in a sense. Clearly Dickson is tied strongly to those extracurriculars. What I’m saying is people use it for a lot of reasons, and that this is an excessive tax on the use of the area that privileges and constructs the area toward these specific big money weekends when people who don’t live here use the street. None of them care about once or twice a year coming for a game and paying that extra 5 bucks. it is more of a tax and an inconvenience and kind of a slap in the face to people who use Dickson regularly. No more studying at CG. I have to pay just to visit Dickson Street Bookshop? When I want lunch, why would I tack on the extra dollar or two? I agree with what was said about convenient parking and parking at all. Parking should not simply be taxed in itself, at least not to this degree.
David Franks –
The city is not providing free parking for the vast majority of U of A students. I don’t know to which previous post you were referring, but by and large, the city does not provide free parking to UA students, other than the WAC lot, which accommodates a relatively small percentage of students’ vehicles in the daytime.
You state that if parking is paid for by those who park, then general funds that had previously gone toward parking can be used for other purposes of general benefit. Okay, so those who park on the street should pay to do so. But you also state that basic parking is a basic service, as opposed to convenient parking, which is an amenity and should therefore cost more. What defines convenient parking versus basic parking?
Using this logic, shouldn’t residents of the entertainment district have to pay to park on the street just like people who don’t live down there but who also paid taxes for the upkeep of the streets? If convenient parking is a premium whose price is defined solely by location, why should those who live there get a huge discount?
Of course I’m not advocating that, just following your argument as I understand it to its logical end.
Also, I’ve already stated that I don’t believe there’s an urgent need for parking in the entertainment district. Certainly nothing that would compare to a building that was literally crumbling.
@leavin’
I hear ya, and you’re right. It does narrow the use of Dickson even further. Drinking and eating will become the only purposes viable there. No more book shop and no more just hangin out.
“If anything, a more densely developed Dickson area will alleviate some sprawl that might have otherwise drifted into other areas of the city.”
I wish someone could produce data actually supporting the echo chamber mantra that densification of a town’s core area leads to a reduction in sprawl. My contention is that it does not. The community simply winds up with both: sprawl AND the gutting of old town historic areas.
roberto campana–
The lot behind Jose’s is very convenient to Jose’s; the WAC lot is convenient to many Dickson businesses; parking six blocks away from your destination is not convenient. Up to a point, lot and garage parking is more convenient for more people than street parking because more people can park near their destination.
In a way, the residents of the entertainment district will pay for street parking through the process of getting the permits. Generally, though, their parking is not particularly convenient to the Dickson Street businesses, and so falls in the domain of basic service. Further, although on-street parking is a privilege granted by the city, development over time and actions of the city to accommodate it tend to make it necessary for the city to grant the privilege. (For example, conversion of single-family dwellings to multi-family, conversion of residences to light commercial uses.)
I never said there’s an urgent need for more parking. I said the city is planning for future parking so action can be taken in a timely manner so as to avoid an urgent need.
doubt.it–
Most gutting of historic areas occurs over time. It took years to make downtown Little Rock the desert of parking lots it became. (In the late 1980′s, Park and Lock, which operated most of those lots, was the largest urban landholder in the United States.) The same is true of the Dickson street area. While a few buildings of some note were demolished on Dickson Street, though, there’s been a lot of rehab and some infill done.
Sprawl occurs because it is cheaper (for the developer) to build at the edge of town: land is cheaper and easier to flatten, and cities can usually be persuaded to provide some infrastructure. (If a developer can sell the “danger” of living downtown, so much the better.)
You are generally correct about sprawl, in that it is almost inevitable. If a downtown remains a viable place to live, and if additional viable housing is added to increase the resident population, and if the city provides development incentives to help equalize the relative costs of development, then on a small scale, development might occur downtown rather than on the periphery. In a growing city, peripheral development must occur if the growth rate is greater than the capacity of a fully-developed downtown, because the edge of town is just plain bigger than the center. Peripheral growth can be slowed or avoided if the downtown is developed– up to the capacity of the downtown development.
“Could be used for street improvements”???
Give me a break. This city is an abortion at road improvements, both in timing and efficiency. Ward 4 is a nightmare with the never-ending Mt. Comfort expansion, which did a great job of destroying the sway bars in my car (Thanks, Fayetteville!), and the Wedington “improvements” to 540 access. Giving the city more money is a one-way ticket to excess. See also: Block Avenue.
We pay more here in sales tax than anyone else in the area, and what exactly do we get that other cities don’t? And by that, what services does the city provide? So far, the only explanation I’ve seen is that we’re in the same town as the University (our only economic engine, by the way).
I mean, other than a bloated infrastructure where the only “candidates” for running the city are the self-described “waiters and karaoke disk jockeys” and “consensus builders” that steal bikes? In all seriousness, justify your existence, Fayetteville city government.
I don’t visit Dickson because of the paid parking, and I’m certainly not alone on that. The idea that someone actually is making an argument that students don’t pay property taxes, when the “entertainment district” is chock-a-block with renters is hypocrisy at its finest. But, that’s never gotten in the way of a good strong stand on a weak position, so why stop now?
It’s a shame that one of the two Ward 4 candidates has to be eliminated, as they’ve damn sure got a better résumé than anyone on the council.
If all of that’s whining, I guess I’m a whiner. Better that than someone who can’t be bothered to form an intellectual argument and instead resorts to the diatribe of the war-weary and disaffected elitist.
Concerned Citizen–
The students who live in the entertainment district probably walk to campus, so they wouldn’t have to pay for parking.
The real shame isn’t that you aren’t running for city council. The real shame is that if you did, you’d still complain but would have no solutions.
As for “can’t be bothered to form an intellectual argument”, where is your intellectual contribution to this thread? Your post is a gut reaction, and we all know what comes out of a gut.
I live in a college town that has paid parking downtown and has a pretty lively downtown. As I said on the other thread, I really think that this is small potatoes compared to changes that have already taken place on Dickson. Those two things make it hard for me to take the vitriol and intensity in these complaints seriously. That said, this had better not mess with that bookstore! DSB is the best thing left on Dickson, one of the best things the entire state has to offer and one of the best bookstores in the country. I am depending on you people to not let something as small as having to pay for parking interrupt your patronage of that marvelous establishment!
Some of you people act like Fayetteville is the first town to ever have paid parking in their entertainment district. Does is suck that we now have to pay for something that use to be free? Sure does, but some of your drama queens (yes, some of you are acting like the definition of a drama queens) are completing ignoring the fact that there is still free parking! You don’t like this “travesty”, then protest it and park somewhere that is free.Don’t punish the fine business establishments on Dickson. Paid parking is the norm in most cities and it is not the end of the world to shell out 4 bucks (which equates to ONE DRINK in most bars) to park your car.
You – If as the city asserts the business owners backed the paid parking plan, they deserve to be punished for supporting something a large number of their customers made clear was undesired.
I’d like to point out (again) a couple of things that some folks either gloss over or ignore:
While many cities do have metered parking, they are nearly always daytime only. In no way can paying for street parking at night and on weekends accurately be described as the norm. This is not the norm. It is highly uncommon, and this is what a lot of people are ticked off about.
$1 an hour at night is not reasonable. Several comments on this topic have stated something along the lines of, “Come on, it’s only $0.50 an hour. Or $1 an hour. Or $5 for a night. That’s just the cost of a drink or two.” For someone who has consistently gone to Dickson Street, those seemingly small fees will add up. Lunch and a night or two out every week could easily run you a few hundred dollars over the course of a year.
And yes, I realize there are still some free parking spaces within walking distance of Dickson, and I plan on using them if they are available. Just like many other people undoubtedly will. But if this paid parking thing sticks, I doubt they will remain free or available for very long.
A few days ago, the newspaper reported the one-year, August-to-August sales tax revenues of the biggest four towns in the area. Bentonville and Rogers were up nicely, Springdale was down slightly, and Fayetteville was statistically flat. Fayetteville has the biggest population, a large university and rabid athletics following, and a sizable number of shopping and wet-county dining/social venues.
Supporting downtown businesses is not a matter of reward-punish. I’m not friends or relations to any owners, so their financial solvency isn’t my concern as a prospective shopper and patron. Dickson Street exists primarily for my leisure, not my philanthropic edification. It’s all based on the most disposable of my income – there’s a lot of fun to be had all over the map, but not tons of money to go around. Bills and groceries are constants. The notion that I will always be willed into Dickson without alternatives is not a constant.
The old Dickson was a rootsy, personal hometown affair – widely held as a half-mile Cheers where everyone knows your name. The idea of the Dickson Street experience is a major part of the sell, not just the product. That has been getting murky over the last few years. Now there are numbers painted on the ground every ten steps, and a funded bias towards a lone institution. The appeal is slipping. I’m not keen on paying for the privilege of paying more money, no matter the actual economics, so my friends and I are reducing our number of visits.
Given the flat tax receipts, what Fayetteville needs to be doing is enticing, not demotivating. Entertainment dollars have to be carefully doled, and Dickson’s hold on them is more tenuous than many of you think. The numbers are in: NWA residents are spending money in Benton County, less so Washington County. What is Fayetteville doing to recapture its title of first destination for entertainment? Making people pay to even visit their most iconic leisure area? Really?
You guys are funny. I think @Concerned Citizen may have our new city slogan.
“Fayetteville: An Abortion at Road Improvements!”
@robertocampana
I will have to respectfully disagree with you that night time paid parking is not the norm
You –
I would like to see some examples of cities that charge on nights and weekends for street parking. I’ve already listed one: Dallas. I think somebody else mentioned Kansas City. That makes two.
Every other city I’ve ever lived in or visited had free on-street parking after 5 or 6 p.m. and on weekends and holidays.
Here’s a few cities where I have parked for free on the street on nights and weekends, near an entertainment-y type area:
Savannah, Austin, Fort Worth, New Orleans, Portland, Seattle, Brooklyn, Boston, Lawrence, Sacramento, Eugene, San Francisco, Los Angeles, St. Louis, Chicago, Providence, Memphis, Missoula, Tulsa, Albuquerque, Nashville, Philadelphia, Concord NH, Louisville, Asheville NC, Lincoln NE and probably several others that I can’t immediately recall.
It’s been several years since I’ve visited some of those cities, so it’s conceivable that some of them might have implemented paid nighttime street parking, but I doubt it. It’s just not the norm.
I was in KC this weekend at P&L District. Parked for free. Sign said cutoff was 5:30pm.
You can make a good argument that the real money generator in regards to paid parking will be the tickets handed out.
AAA, the auto assoc., did a study once on the percentage of annual city budgets (of big cities) funded by parking tickets and it was a stunner.
Ticket-givers had quotas to meet which lead to a situation where the ticker-givers develop the strategy of lurking about just waiting for the person who needs to pop in and out of someplace, can’t find a parking spot, goes for the loading zone etc., comes back inside of 3 mins. to a $70 ticket.
That’s what will hurt the downtown small businesses like cleaners, when customers decide to take their business to a strip mall rather than risk a predatory priced ticket.
I would agree that nighttime paid parking is NOT the norm in most American cities… especially ones with a population of 70k like us.
There are examples of small cities that have paid parking at night. In fact there is one right here in the Ozarks. Has anyone ever been over to Eureka Springs? They have had paid parking for years in the lots down by the Civic Auditorium.
I think that the difference with areas of other larger cities that only have paid parking during the day is that these are typically central business districts that are dead at night after the bankers, lawyers and office people leave for the day. Here in Fayetteville we are fortunate enough to have both daytime and nightime activity in our downtown/Dickson St. area. This is a good thing and it illustrates the vitality of our downtown.
When I go to the Country Club Plaza in KC I pay to park either on-street or in a deck, and it seems like it is always busy up there. The Plaza in KC is veiwed as one of that City’s crown jewels and it has been resiliant since the 1920′s. I don’t see why our downtown/Dickson St. area should not have the same vitality and longevity regardless of whether you have to pay to park.
In closing people just like to complain. Get over it, if it twists your panties in knot that much park somewhere for free and walk or go patronize the auto dependent strip mall businesses in town. The sales tax collected is the same and Dickson St. could do without your negativity. Sheesh.
Maybe our difference in opinion is based “on street” parking and “lot” parking. I never see any lot parking that is free at night in any city I have been to.
I’d like to specify that my beef with Fayetteville’s paid parking plan concerns street parking. I’m not talking about parking lots or decks or any other type of parking space.
B&WC –
With maybe two or three exceptions, the cities I listed in my previous post all have vibrant entertainment areas downtown that attract people at night and on weekends, and they all have free parking on the street during those times. Comparing Dickson/downtown Fayetteville to a shopping center like Country Club Plaza is an enormous stretch. For all of Fayetteville’s appeal, there is really no comparison.
As far as people deriving joy from complaining, I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I take no pleasure in it. I would prefer that the city not make what I believe to be an enormous mistake. What baffles me is that anyone who drives a car and doesn’t work for either the city or WAC would ever think this is a good idea.
It seems that the prevailing response to criticism of the plan has been to tell the critics to just shut up and accept it. That doesn’t make for a very convincing case.
Anybody know anything about this?
http://www.lovelivemusic.com/archives/725
I don’t know why paid parking would affect the guarantee for a band.
Roberto, that link is some crazy stuff. Sounds like such a lame excuse to for breaking a deal. Obviously it is pretty ironic that there will be that many fewer patrons paying for parking on that night.
“It seems that the prevailing response to criticism of the plan has been to tell the critics to just shut up and accept it. That doesn’t make for a very convincing case.” from robertocampana
Best comment so far.
I am usually not one to credit the wisdom of crowds, but this should be put on the ballot.
If this is what the majority of people of Fayetteville actually want for themselves, I would be baffled, but I would have to let it stand.
RE “It seems that the prevailing response to criticism of the plan has been to tell the critics to just shut up and accept it. That doesn’t make for a very convincing case.”
It is no less true to note that the prevailing response to justification of the plan has been to call those who approve of it elitist snobs, and otherwise abdicate from a discussion. That doesn’t make for a very convincing case.
Vandelay –
You’re right. It does seems like a lame excuse.
David Franks —
Agreed. I think the topic should be discussed in a civil manner and without resorting to name-calling.
I don’t think the people who support the plan are elitist snobs, I just strongly disagree with them and remain unconvinced that the paid parking plan is a good policy.
robertocampana–
You have, indeed, been articulate on the subject.
RE the guarantee at George’s: I’m surprised that Brian Crowne, having known for a couple of months about the new parking regime, would wait until such a late date to call a band about their contract. I guess he waited until he had read all the complaints in the Flyer threads.
@blackandwhite and Allstreets: The thing is, Dickson isn’t Bourbon Street! It’s not an entertainment district! Its a commercial district surrounding a major university that people use in conjunction with their business on campus. All I know is I will not pay $5 to park and go study at Common Grounds, have lunch on Dickson, or shop at either of its fine bookstores. I will drive out of the area to an outlying coffee shop, I’d drive to Bentonville before I’d give them $5 so i can study in a coffee shop. I refuse to pay that absurd fee to patronize businesses that are in the vicinity of the University where I conduct my business. As far as I’m concerned, paid parking is a tax on daily life just like Bikes Blues and BBQ is a tax and interruption of normal activities and a strain on quality of life. Additionally, the tax is only going to pay for the continued misappropriation of the Dickson area toward this “entertainment district” status. That’s only part of what it is. And the only reason it is being geared this way is so the rich can get richer.
additionally; you’re dismissive reduction of our discussion to “complaining” raises the question of why are you even here if the discussion is only a complaint. In that case then, aren’t you then yourself only complaining about the discussion?
leavnF’ville–
b&wc made a valid point about street parking, which contributed to the discussion.
Your insistence that parking costs five dollars indicates that you haven’t thought through what you’re saying. The MOST it will cost is five dollars. And since eating out, hanging out at coffee shops, and shopping are considered entertainment, how is it “misappropriation” to make Dickson Street an entertainment district?
But by all means, go to Bentonville, and thank you for leavnF’ville.
@David: yeah you can have it, and your personal lame attitude. But, if I sit in the coffee shop for a long enough period, it is 5 bucks or close enough. I simply was rounding out instead of listing the separate costs. Secondly, it is a misappropriation. I don’t think shopping, eating, and studying are necessarily entertainment, although I suppose the distinction could be blurred. I just think they (supporters of paid parking) ignore the daily use aspect. It’s preventative for certain activities, to use CG, for instance to study on a regular basis. Obviously I could be wrong, but I expect that the tax receipts of businesses on and around Dickson that aren’t primarily music and libations, will, in the coming months, reflect how this arrangement privileges the area against them.
Also, I read where they talked about street parking. And I read the addendum to every post that insults those of the opposing view point.
I dont think the people who are being labeled as “supporters” of the plan, are actually in favor of the plan. They are just against the drama queen, chicken little, “I’ll never go to Dickson”, “this is a travesty beyond anything they have ever seen”, “fire everyone”, this never happens anywhere else, attitudes. There are asome things worth going to battle for and IMO (and nothing more than my opinion) this is a silly thing to get SOOOOOOO worked up about.
BTW- I have been getting some bad ass spots on Dickson
FWIW, leavinfville, you know it drives the CG people crazy when someone sits in there for hours studying? Its a restaurant, not a library.
@ Vandelay – good call, I meant to post how rude that was, but didn’t get to it… glad someone else pointed out the lack of good etiquette
Leavn –
I remember when I first moved to Fayetteville in about 1998, I used to go to Common Grounds to drink coffee and read. I did this a few times, and noticed that after about 20 minutes, the waiters would lower the lights where I was sitting to the point that I couldn’t read anymore. It made me mad at first, because I figured that I had paid just like everybody else, I got my own coffee and water and I always left a good tip. Then I realized: oh, I get it. They don’t want my business. And I never went back.
But I did start going to Arsaga’s, which had better coffee, better lighting, friendlier staff and was just an all-around more pleasant place to spend time, and one that’s geared toward reading and studying. And you will always be able to park for free.
There’s an Arsaga’s at the corner of Township and Gregg and another one out at the shopping center at the 265/45 intersection. There are also smaller locations at Washington Regional and the new law library on the UA campus.
I live in the so-called “entertainment district” and therefore travel Dickson Street and surrounding areas on a daily basis. I wonder if some of the proponents of this plan have the same perspective? A lot of people who decry my complaints about Bikes & BS don’t actually have to negotiate the hassle of living with it. Totally unscientific, but the parking on Dickson and the WAC lots have been dramatically lower the times I’ve seen them. I can’t imagine the business owners want less activity down there.
CG has made its living by cross-defining itself as a coffee shop, cocktail bar, and diner. They define themselves as a coffee shop, and there are a consistent group who use the place that way, usually in off-peak hours when their seating isn’t an issue. My servers love me and know me by heart. But now it’s all ruined by evil paid-parking.
leavnF’ville–
(Still haven’t left?) It’s allruined by “evil” paid parking? Common Grounds is no longer going to define itself as a coffee shop, they will no longer tolerate studying at their restaurant/bar, and the servers suddenly don’t know you but hate you anyway? All because of paid parking?
No. The only thing that has changed in the Elysian milieu you once enjoyed is that you refuse to pay for parking, which you have ranked right up there with the Holocaust and Fred Phelps– in two threads.
While previous accusations of whining in this thread were unfounded, I believe your post has given cause for just such an accusation.
Perhaps, once your blinding grief has subsided, you will realize that the idyll can be restored by the simple expedient of finding a free parking place. You’ll have to walk a bit, but surely such a paradise is worth a few steps.
@David
Hm. Well, the thing is, if anyone wants to have such a thing in their normal routine as studying or working at CG or visiting the bookstore or having lunch on Dickson, they are going to pay a BUNCH OF MONEY! I don’t mind walking, but that’s not always practical. This is the same issue that is irritating people I know that work on Dickson. If you use the street a few times a week, the city is BANKING off of your patronage of businesses to which you should unfettered access. If you can’t afford it, STFO. It is evil. I’m not describing an ideal. I’m describing people’s daily routines, who, if they were to maintain them, could easily end up rolling out an extra 50 bucks a month just because somebody decided Dickson should be Disney World on sauce. What’s next, special money for use only on Dickson or the square? Let’s pay 25 cents extra per dollar to get red money with little hogs on it and call ‘em Wally Dollars. Then, let’s act like people calling us classist snobs are just a bunch of whiners. Mr. Franks, I’m calling this fiasco what it is. It’s a marriage between property owners and city government, all of whom are envisioning a future for Dickson as an exclusive, gentrified “entertainment” district, designed mostly to rake in as much cash as possible from people who live elsewhere.
“It’s a marriage between property owners and city government, all of whom are envisioning a future for Dickson as an exclusive, gentrified “entertainment” district, designed mostly to rake in as much cash as possible from people who live elsewhere.”
LeavnF’ville- I sympathize with the general direction of your complaint above, but…what you describe is Dickson Street already, since about 1989. That you don’t see this until someone wants you to put a little money into a meter is amazing to me. Paid parking is a small symptom of a change that happened a long time ago.
And if you’re staying at Common Grounds long enough to rack up $5.00 in parking charges, I sure hope you’re tipping well.
leavnF’ville–
Ah! Now I understand: you think you have an absolute right to patronize businesses on Dickson Street. In reality, the rights of the business– “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone” (a limited right), and dress codes– curtail your right. But let’s say you do have an absolute right to patronize them. Paid parking doesn’t prevent your exercising that right; it changes the dynamic of your parking somewhere and locomoting yourself to the door, which is your responsibility corollary to that right (except at Sonic). The new paid parking program may well be a fiasco– it might even inconvenience a number of persons other than yourself– but it isn’t evil.
Clearly you feel you have given your life over to study, because you are so histrionic in your complaint about how this new cost will wreck your pursuit of scholarship. Once you have relocated to Bentonville, please do study the nature of good and evil (and pleasant and inconvenient), and the actual extent of human rights. You should also study economic systems and forms of government. I’m sure this curriculum will provide a refreshing change from whatever you currently study.
@David
I’m not being histrionic. Paid parking is clearly a tax on the use of Dickson Street. Attempts to argue otherwise are rebuffed by the physical reality of going there and trying to use the street. I’m not talking about just myself. I’m talking about anyone who uses the street on a regular basis. For all such regular people, a good 30-50 dollar monthly bill has just been added to the cost of living. Walking is time consuming and not always practical, although I have done it. Furthermore, I’m sure in time, nearby free spaces will be appropriated into the program in some fashion. I’m trying to figure out what could be your angle in so vigorously supporting such a tax. Everything else you have to say is ridiculous, either so obvious as to be taken as a given or completely beside the point. My point is that we have forfeited, without knowing it, the right to patronize these businesses without being taxed – although your reference to no shirt-no shoes-no service signs is singingly insightful, we would have to agree in practical terms it is beside the point.
Furthermore, you once again resort personal attacks to mask the fact that you have nothing meaningful to support your stance in favor of paid parking or to contribute to the discussion in anyway. You impugn my “scholarship” (congrats on finding a place to use the word, btw) yet you offer nothing, not one shred of evidence, nor one cogent or pertinent example of how what I have said misunderstands city government or anything else for that matter. Calling paid parking “evil” is a rhetorical strategy. It indicates my stance on the situation. Your rhetorical strategy employs exaggerated claims to make yourself feel big and important while making people who oppose you small in your imagination. It is one that relies on emotional appeals rather than logical argumentation. The problem with you is that you fail to recognize the difference between substantive discourse and your own excrement. So, if you have something meaningful to offer on the topic of paid parking rather than dung-tossing, perhaps I’ll have something to say, otherwise you’re on my ignore list.
leavnF’ville–
I guess I took your rhetorical strategy for histrionics because it is a bad strategy: it weakens your position by making you appear unable to gauge the magnitude of actions and their effects. But if you wish to be taken for a poor debater rather than a drama queen, that’s fine. Please note that I am not the only person who has questioned the content or tone of your posts.
If you read my exchanges with others, you will find that my approach and tone vary according to their posts. I try to avoid personal attacks, and I am generally successful in the case of posts that are logical and mature. However, I admit to a tendency to take incongruities in people’s posts and carry on with them. I can see how you would take my questioning of your understanding of rights and evil in light of your often-mentioned, now-in-shambles life of academic pursuit as a personal attack. But I neither want, nor need, to make you small– I’m making your argument small. I keep hoping that you will abandon your faulty approach for a valid one. I’m rooting for you.
Read the Constitution: there is no right to not be taxed. That approach to the issue is just plain wrong. Period. That said, I am not vigorously supporting paid parking; I am pointing out the weaknesses in your posts opposing it. Note that I agreed– provisionally– with your most reasonable statement: paid parking might well be a fiasco. We’ll find out.
You appear to argue that one should not have to pay for convenience. Yet 7-11 continues to thrive today because people will pay for convenience. Would you argue that paying a 30% markup on a gallon of milk is not fair, if it saved you a side trip to the grocery store? It is the same for paid parking. You still have the right to decide whether the cost of that convenience is fair to you. The concept of paying for convenience is part of the economy, and you do it all the time. So that isn’t really a good approach for this argument, either.
Cats do three things when they are not eating or sleeping: they arrange themselves and squint at the world, they coil up and watch the world, and they hone their skills by playing with bits of stuff. I celebrate my bigness and importance by squinting at my domain. Blogs are my windowsills; I post on blogs either to sharpen my skills, or for amusement– it depends on what bit of stuff I play with.
Does anyone know if the mayor is going to use one of his 16 free parking days this weekend for the football game? It’d be a good PR move for the city.