Early voting begins today for the Oct. 11 special election to extend Fayetteville’s 1-cent sales tax.
Registered voters who don’t plan to make it to the polls next week may cast ballots between 8 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. weekdays leading up to voting day. To vote early, just head over to the County Clerk’s office at the Washington County Courthouse, 280 N. College Ave.
To check voter registration status or to find a polling place, visit voterview.org or call 479-444-1711.
The tax
The 18-year-old penny sales tax — which must be voted on every 10 years — accounts for about $15.4 million in Fayetteville’s general and capital improvement funds and goes towards a variety of uses, including city employee payroll, street and sidewalk work, and trail construction.
According to county officials, voters first approved the tax in April 1993 by a vote of 3,675 to 619. The tax was extended in 2002 by a vote of 2,531 to 789.
Should the extension pass, it would remain in effect until June 2023.
For
The tax was last week endorsed by members of a citizen group called Vote FOR Fayetteville. The committee, led by Ward 3 Alderman Justin Tennant, includes a half dozen representatives of local business and nonprofit groups.
Tennant told those in attendance at a campaign rally that basic city services would be threatened if the extension is not passed.
“A vote ‘for Fayetteville’ would help keep approximately 148 jobs that would be likely eliminated,” he said. “This would include, unfortunately, up to 55 police department employees and 38 fire department workers.”
Paul Becker, the city’s finance director, has made similar warnings concerning job cuts if the tax is not extended.
Also advocating the tax’s continuation is the Fayetteville Council of Neighborhoods (FCON), which last week passed a resolution supporting the renewal.
Against
The Washington County Tea Party is so far the only group expressing any formal opposition to the tax renewal.
In a press release issued Tuesday, chairman Jeff Oland said talk of job cuts is just a scare tactic.
“To threaten people with closing fire stations and cutting police protection first if they don’t keep paying this tax is dishonest,” said Oland. “Cutting spending in other areas never seems to be an option,” he said.
Oland said people don’t come to Fayetteville because of programs and amenities such as the city’s expanding trail system. “People choose to live and shop and do business where taxes are lower,” he said. “Keep the taxes high, and the people paying the taxes will eventually leave.”
Maybe Jeff Oland should move to somewhere that the taxes are lower. Then he might come to appreciate the benefits of the sales tax. I know I’ll be voting for it. Better to pay a small tax and have well-maintained parks and public spaces than to keep that penny and leave everything to deteriorate when there’s no funding.
I voted in favor of this tax. I’m one of those crazy people that moved to and stay in Fayetteville because of the quality of life that comes from an extensive trail system and walkable sidewalks.
Teabagger opposition is a sure sign that the tax is worth supporting.
The TEA Party’s supposed basic tenet is that we are Taxed Enough Already. Yet our taxes were at a sixty-year low when it was formed, and low taxes were a primary cause of the deficit they complain about now. They haven’t been right about anything else since then, either.
To anyone who calls the Tea Party “teabaggers”, I know I’m not preaching to the choir!
RE “I know I’m not preaching to the choir!”
If you wish to convey a message rather than fail to communicate, then your choice is clear; you just haven’t made it.
As I recall, the TEA Party initially endorsed the term “Teabagger”. Call me a traditionalist.
I was addressing two different comments you made. One was about tea baggers, and the other was that you said that I was preaching to the choir in regards to you being someone who wanted limited government (I assume). And NO, the TeaBagger name was used later. It has a negative connotation to it, which you probably already knew.
Beyonce, what exactly *is* that negative connotation of which you speak? Can you clarify? And what is Santorum?
Bianca–
RE “I was addressing two different comments you made.”
I know. That’s why I made two different responses.
RE “And NO, the TeaBagger name was used later.”
From Huffington Post, 18 Nov 2009:
“As a reference to members of the currently active Tea Party, the word has been used in speech and print by both liberals and conservatives. In this context, the term “teabagger” is a reasonably conceived informal name for an affiliate of the Tea Party, and as a word in the news, it earned a mention for the year 2009.” — “‘Teabagger’ Finalist For Oxford’s ‘Word Of The Year’”
David, it has been used in the past couple of years with a negative connotation.
Bianca–
RE “David, it has been used in the past couple of years with a negative connotation.”
Yes, it has, but as I said, it was initially adopted by the TEA Party. Their early ignorance as to its “negative connotation” is of no consequence to me– I’m far more concerned about the remainder of their dangerous wealth of ignorance.
voting for the tax. i love fayetteville, and i am willing to pay for it.
I would like to thank the Tea Party for motivating me to go vote IN FAVOR of this extension.
It’s nice to see the tea party is still attempting to speak for me. You are entitled to your opinion, Mr. Orland. You are not entitled to speak for me or anyone else. Count me as another one of those pesky “people” that did not consider taxes at all when moving here. I would take some fearmongering before I would take a rigid pompous arrogant stiff attempting to speak for me.
I’m not in the Tea Party, I will be voting against the tax. I do think it will pass though. One question why are we spending 20k on a special election when this tax is not going to expire until 2013 and we have a general election in 2012? Talk about a waste of tax payer money.
The next general election won’t happen until FY 2013 and the city needs to know ahead of time how much it will have to work with so a correct FY 2013 budget can be created.
i’ll be voting for it. Suck it tea party!
What will you all do when the taxpayers finally have enough and move? Who will you steal tax money from then? Open your eyes and notice the exodus of people from northern states and California who are fleeing taxes and moving south. The problem is, they move to places where the taxes are lower and then vote for more taxes again.
I want to know who is holding the City of Fayetteville accountable for the SPENDING they are doing with this “temporary” tax.
In 1990 the population of Fayetteville was ~42,000. In 2010 it was ~74,000. The tax wasn’t enacted until 1993, has been in place the last 18 years, and the population of Fayetteville has nearly doubled in that time. How do you rectify that fact with your claims that this sales tax, if renewed, will drive people to other communities?
On the contrary, it seems clear that the high level of public safety and quality of amenities Fayetteville is able to provide its citizens because of the funding the tax provides is one of the reasons the population has grown.
Christine–
RE “I want to know who is holding the City of Fayetteville accountable for the SPENDING they are doing with this ‘temporary’ tax.”
This tax is “temporary” only in the sense that it can be eliminated if enough people vote against it. The original structure of the tax requires an election every ten years for its extension. In other words, its design accounts for its potential permanence.
Christine, YOU should be holding them accountable for spending. What expenses would you cut?
Van, you’ll wait a L-O-N-G-G-G-G time for these people to argue actual policy. They’re more of the hit-and-run variety.
I don’t think so, Mr. Innarested Observer! I could tell you what I THINK they should cut, but the budget is not detailed in what items are being funded……. such as those STUPID speed tables!
Bianca, the speed tables may be slightly annoying, but they do considerably slow down traffic in areas with heavy pedestrian traffic. Walkers and parents in those neighborhoods appreciate them.
Ah. So “stupid” and “unnecessary” things–that is, things you don’t like– shouldn’t be funded. Your opinion, eloquent though it is, isn’t really actually a policy argument.
In what way are speed tables “stupid”? They do exactly what they are supposed to do, and cost less than the police force that would accomplish the same thing.
Excuuuuuuuuuuse me David, but the only thing mentioned was spending and expenses. Now tell me what policy issues you are referring to?
And YES, I do think they are STUPID. They can do damage to your vehicle. Especially when you don’t know they are there and they aren’t marked well enough to SEE THEM.
I’m not certain, because it’s been a few years since I inquired about this, but I’m pretty sure speed tables are funded by the Street Fund. The Street Fund is capitalized by the gas tax, and the sales tax in question affects only the General Fund.
I’m also pretty sure that there haven’t been any new speed tables built within the last few years because of the public controversy about their effectiveness.
In China it is said that there are sages that sleep in caves for hundreds of years. In the past, it has been recorded that a certain general was imprisoned for decades with nothing to eat, yet he emerged from his ordeal with thick black hair. There are many mysteries in that vastness. There was a mythical movement of the Taxpayers of the Tsien District during the Autumn and Spring Period. They were being levied by their government to pay for the defense of the endless onslaught of the Huns encroaching on the northern and eastern boarders of their kingdom. (A formidable foe, second only to the black plague in terms of consolidated European death tolls.) Finally, when it was decided that they had enough of the protections provided, they moved south. It was there where the their population was extinguished by Rabies, rampant homosexuality, forced abortions and death-panels.
It is also said that some of the most-high sages walk on clouds, consuming only light and mist. So far they are removed from the frantic notions of man they observe their own feelings as clouds reflected in the tarns common to their altitude.
Given that we live here, in the United States, I would like to know where exactly you plan to move. I have made some calculations: though it is impossible for me to become so enlightened to exist like the chinese sages, I think I can glean enough from your histrionics to live for a thousand years so long I am within a 20 mile radius. You can radiate from your trailer as I absorb from mine. Also, can I borrow 1/2 cup of sugar?
The conversation should have ended here. That, Mr Levanter, is a most righteous retort. Thank you.
Thank you sincerely for your kind words. It has occurred to me that I do not fully understand the machinations of local taxation, bond-issuance, bond ratings, et cetera. I feel my previous comment was “snarky” as it was definitely ill-informed and without constructive content. Even the levity I had hoped to imbue is skewed. As such, I will reserve further comments unless one of the two following conditions apply: 1) I am well versed and cogent concerning the subject at hand, that my stated opinions tend to my line of thinking as a citizen, and such thoughts are coherent and productive. 2) that the fruit of whatever matter at hand is so low-hanging that I can apply my creative impulses without offense.
I do think that all opinions are valid and worthy of hearty debate. When I vaunt mine; I hope them to be respected, too.
You don’t mind that tax, especially when it pays your salary, huh, Matt?
My main concern is……. beyond police, fire and salaries, is the money being spent wisely? I’m not opposed to the tax as long as the money is not being wasted. I think that more trails are not really necessary at the moment, considering the state of the economy.
Biking and walking trails are exactly what we need when gas costs $3.50, people have less income, and everyone is getting fat.
Not everyone lives near the trails.
Then we need more trails.
lol
Are you going to bike when it’s 20 degrees outside, and have about 5 miles to get to where you need to go?
Yes, it gets cold in February… People still need to go places.
My point is……… who is going to ride a bike 5 miles in 20 degree weather?????????? Are YOU?
I will, and I have, along with many of my friends. Interestingly, exercise keeps you warm.
That has nothing to do with my support of the tax. It’s a baseless accusation to suggest that I consider my $8000/year salary to be a more important consideration than the $15.4million in services that would have to be cut if this tax were repealed.
You might think that a portion of the services paid for by the tax are wasteful, but you are in the minority of Fayetteville voters. How do I know? I was elected on a platform that included trails, and so were a majority of the other Alderman. Trails made up a large of the platforms of both the former and current Mayor.
You aren’t educated on the facts, like how the city has cut the General Fund budget by $2.6 million in the last three years without sacrificing services, or how occupancy rates for rentals on the trails are near 100%, or how a company like Proctor & Gamble made the decision to locate in Fayetteville instead of another NWA community because of our parks and trails.
If you think we are doing it wrong and we aren’t listening to you, work to elect someone else or run for office yourself. You will be disappointed in your polling numbers if you run on a platform of eliminating capital improvements for bicycle facilities.
Oh I know, Matt. You’re just one of those typical tax and spend type of guys. You love to get hold of OTHERS’ money and push your own GREEN agenda. I’ll bet you’re all for Agenda21, aren’t you?
As for your bicycle facilities, I know how you are with bicycles. Well, guess what, not all people are able to ride bicycles from all over town. This town is NOT flat and we don’t have a mild climate all year long. What you’re wanting is just not logical.
As for polling numbers, who took a poll? I never got asked. If you’re talking about the polls on this website, then it is VERY skewed. I’ll wager that not many conservatives come on this website. You have more people who support what the city is doing coming to this website and voting.
Fayetteville is getting to be known as the “People’s Republic of Fayetteville”. I know that I’m not the only one who feels that Fayetteville is being micro-managed into a place where you can’t do anything with your own property without asking the all mighty city government for permission! Don’t talk to me about that I’m in the minority. The people who supported you are in YOUR district. Your district doesn’t make up the entire town. There ARE a lot more people than you think out here who are AGAINST what you and the city government are doing to this town.
I have come on this website to post my opinion about this tax, only because this is the only place I have found that I can post my opinions in front of people who don’t agree with me. I’ve been pummeled by all the supporters of the tax, but that’s ok. I got to say what I wanted.
Actually I was referring to polling numbers at the voting booths.
Bianca–
You said “Not everyone lives near the trails” and “Well, guess what, not all people are able to ride bicycles from all over town.”
Well, guess what? If safe access to the bike trail network is limited by distance, then we need more bike trails and bike lanes.
RE “This town is NOT flat and we don’t have a mild climate all year long.”
Yet people keep riding those pesky bicycles. Those fools!
RE “The people who supported you are in YOUR district. Your district doesn’t make up the entire town.”
As Mr. Petty pointed out, other aldermen endorsed the trail system in their campaigns.
RE “There ARE a lot more people than you think out here who are AGAINST what you and the city government are doing to this town.”
Yet over time, in numerous elections, a majority of Fayetteville citizens has conspired to turn Fayetteville into the liberal hell that you find so distasteful. Perhaps you should move to Springdale, where you can savor the fruits of “conservative” governance. I would suggest Rogers, but they’ve gone kind of liberal on us.
RE “I have come on this website to post my opinion about this tax, only because this is the only place I have found that I can post my opinions in front of people who don’t agree with me.”
Good. That’s what it’s for.
“I’ve been pummeled by all the supporters of the tax, but that’s ok.”
It was more your poor style of argumentation than your opinion per se that got you pummeled.
“I got to say what I wanted.”
Good. Thank you.
@ David Franks: I was not responding to you. But I see you still want to criticize my communications skills. If that’s all you’ve got, then have at it. I got my point across.
Yes, you did– eventually. Thank you for your perseverance.
Increased Taxation could be a way to force all the miserable non-natives out of northwest arkansas. God knows we don’t need the increased traffic.
How much do we have to increase/decrease taxes to get rid of the miserable xenophobes?
David Franks, we do NOT need more trails at this time! That’s total stupidity!
How so? Explain.
We need to be focusing on necessities, not things that only a few people will use.
But to many people who use the trails, they are necessities. Are firetrucks necessities? Only a few people need to have fires put out.
AS I stated earlier: “My main concern is……. beyond police, fire and salaries, is the money being spent wisely? I’m not opposed to the tax as long as the money is not being wasted. I think that more trails are not really necessary at the moment, considering the state of the economy.”
NO, David, I’m not talking about the Fire department or the Police department. I’m talking about things we don’t ABSOLUTELY need right now. Now why do you feel the TRAILS out around Lake Fayetteville are necessary? I have lived in Fayetteville almost my entire life, and I got along fine without them BEFORE they were put in.
You were talking about things that you don’t consider necessary based solely on the fact that you don’t need or use them. Have you ever needed or used the fire department?
I have also lived in Fayetteville for my entire adult life, and I was doing just fine before they improved the trails around Lake Fayetteville. Then I rode the trails several times this summer and my life got BETTER. Thats the kind of town that I want to live in. I’m willing to pay a bit extra on every dollar in order to live in a town that keeps improving itself. I’m not a fan of every project but overall I am happy with the fact that here in Fayetteville we don’t only focus on maintaining the bare minimums.
Van, then why don’t YOU pay for the trails, instead of making the rest of us who don’t use them pay for them?
David, I guess you can’t read.
Bianca– RE “David, I guess you can’t read.”
You wrote:
“David Franks, we do NOT need more trails at this time! That’s total stupidity!”
“We need to be focusing on necessities, not things that only a few people will use.”
“I’m talking about things we don’t ABSOLUTELY need right now….I got along fine without [trails] BEFORE they were put in.”
I responded:
“Ah. So “stupid” and “unnecessary” things–that is, things you don’t like– shouldn’t be funded.”
“You were talking about things that you don’t consider necessary based solely on the fact that you don’t need or use them.”
“Your opinion, eloquent though it is, isn’t really actually a policy argument.”
These are, like all of my responses, clearly based upon having read what you wrote.
You also wrote:
“Van, then why don’t YOU pay for the trails, instead of making the rest of us who don’t use them pay for them?”
He already does. I’ll bet he even pays for things that YOU like and use.
“Excuuuuuuuuuuse me David, but the only thing mentioned was spending and expenses. Now tell me what policy issues you are referring to?”
City policy is relevant to the whole city. Your opinion is clearly relevant only to you, so it is not policy.
“I like Fayetteville much better before all the LIBERALS moved into the area.”
So you lived here before the Fulbright family moved in?
It’s been a treat. Let’s do this again when you’ve had enough practice at intelligent discussion to not get flustered.
And yet I restate what I said before ………..
“My main concern is……. beyond police, fire and salaries, is the money being spent wisely? I’m not opposed to the tax as long as the money is not being wasted. I think that more trails are not really necessary at the moment, considering the state of the economy.”
Read please!
Bianca–
You came back too early.
I can’t read your mind; I can work only with what you write. You said “We need to be focusing on necessities, not things that only a few people will use.” You clearly equate necessity with use by a lot of people, including yourself. That would make, say, the city’s ladder truck unnecessary, because very few people actually use it. (And thank goodness for that.) That has nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with a selfish notion of how a city should be run. I understand the constraints of the economy, but that isn’t the aspect of your argument that I am addressing..
Since you claim that more than one person here has failed to get your point, perhaps you need to hone your thinking and writing. You would get your message across better and appear less flustered if you’d collect your thoughts before you try to express them; more judicious punctuation in the expression will also help with the flustered thing.
David- you just want to argue because you don’t agree with me. I did not say that PUBLIC maintenance items were UNnecessary! Do I have to spell out EVERY necessary item on here to get my point across? You just want to shut me up, so you keep harping on the fact that I did not say Fire, Police, Garbage trucks, etc, in my response to you. I thought you could get my point from what I said in that paragraph about police and fire. I was mainly talking about the TRAILS in this town!! Since you want me to shut up, I will, so you can be happy. BYE!
Well, don’t let the door hit ya.
Well, weeblo, just for that, I’m voting NO on the tax!
Chaaa! It was in my hands and I blew it. To think, before my comment you were actually going to vote yes. I suppose all is lost now.
David, I’m not going to write a blasted dissertation for you to say “You don’t make your point”. It does no good to argue with you because we will never agree.
Au contraire, weeblo, I was going to vote YES, because we do need to keep the city services going. But NOW because of what you said, I decided not to. The vote will probably pass anyway, but just to show the city that I’m not happy with some of their expenses, I’m voting NO. :P In other words, I’m making a statement of discontent.
And, weeblo, YES you did blow it. Sorry, dude. Can’t win all of them! lol
Bianca–
RE “I did not say that PUBLIC maintenance items were UNnecessary!”
You did say, without qualification, that things that few people use are unnecessary. You keep adding qualifications to what you have already said.
RE “Well, weeblo, just for that, I’m voting NO on the tax!”
In other words, your hurt feelings are more important that city policy. Again, that sounds selfish.
RE “I was going to vote YES, because we do need to keep the city services going. But NOW because of what you said, I decided not to.”
In other words, you really lack the principles on this issue to determine a firm course of action.
RE “I was mainly talking about the TRAILS in this town!!”
Yes, you were– as examples of things that shouldn’t be funded because few people use them.
RE “Since you want me to shut up, I will, so you can be happy.”
I don’t want you to shut up. It should be clear to you by now, even through your fog of Teabaggeresque self-absorption, that I want you to think before you post. Further, having no continuing cause to correct you will deprive me of one of my few pleasures.
I like Fayetteville much better before all the LIBERALS moved into the area.
Someone, anyone?
OK, I’ll bite. What are you, 130 or something?
I liked Fayetteville much better when… ah, who am I kidding? I always liked Fayetteville. Thing is, those crazy liberals like things that improve their overall quality of life. And they also can make an argument without ranting and making ad hominem attacks and by actually discussing actual policy.
I’m still waiting to hear the policy discussion from the “anti” side. Should Fayetteville *NOT* fund quality of life items like parks, trails, etc.? And why not? To some of us, these things are precisely why we want to live here.
FWIW, I’d be willing to bet it isn’t just those dagnabbit liberals who use the trails, enjoy the parks, the holiday lights, yadda yadda yadda.
If you ain’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. And part of what makes this country great is that we can live wherever we damn well please. And we are generally willing to tolerate the close-mindedness of those who gripe about how much they liked it before all the LIBERALS came along.
So if you or your ilk can come up with some real ideas about how the money in this town should be spent, get after it. Until then, if you’ve got nothing substantive to add, I suggest you go back to watching that pretend TV network that tells you what you should be thinking.
Yes, I did like Fayetteville much better before people came to this town and wanted to change it into something they left. Why did they leave their previous town if they liked THEIR policies so much? I was born in this town and I don’t like the way liberalism has taken it over. You say that you want policy discussion. OK, here it is………… STOP spending so much money on projects that ARE NOT necessary when the country is in trouble financially. That’s what I was talking about. Clear and Simple! Until our country is back on its feet, let’s have a bit of common sense. Is that too much to ask? Why ask people to pay more money for things like park trails when they might need that money to pay for THEIR necessities?
Still not an answer. “Things that are not necessary.” As defined by… who? You? The voters? In a democracy sometimes you have to stomach things you don’t like for the wishes of the majority. It sickens me that the city spends money on things like BBBBBBBBBBBBBBSBBQ, but someone in a position of power has deemed that a business-friendly activity. I don’t agree, but I (and a lot of others) haven’t (yet) been able to marshall enough pushback to get this thing under control or eliminated completely. It’s a process.
In the bigger picture… how do/did you feel about the country starting two wars that have helped to put our economy in the dumper? Were those wars necessary? Are they necessary still? Maybe if we weren’t spending money on those things, we’d have enough federal assistance to spend on communities here instead of wars over there.
It is related. The person in NWA is part of the greater community of the US.
You can’t have it both ways and choose to cut spending in one place, but allow massive overspending somewhere else. If the standard is simply “projects that ARE NOT necessary” then the parks and the trails might get shortchanged, but that also means we’ll be pulling our troops out of wars, shutting military bases in 150 nations down and coming home, closing Gitmo, letting businesses fail when they are poorly managed and not giving away bailouts (damn the consequences!), and on and on. I can live with this standard. Can you?
Besides, you’d never be satisfied with any answer I gave you. So why should I try?
Bianca–
RE “I was born in this town and I don’t like the way liberalism has taken it over.”
I take it, then, that you were born long enough before, say, 1970 that you have reliable memories of Fayetteville’s pre-liberalism days. When I came here in the 1970s, Fayetteville was already an oasis of liberalism. Of course, I’m comparing it to most of the rest of Arkansas, particularly Russellville.
Yes
I came from Harrison, 80 miles east of Fayetteville. I’m not trying to change Fayetteville into Harrison. I’m trying to help Fayetteville handle the expected population growth in a way that preserves the natural beauty around us and increases our community’s resiliency to the changes I foresee coming in the next 50 years. If I wanted it to be more like Harrison, I’d start taking your advice. Then, I’d be voted out of office, and rightly so. Your views do not represent what the vast majority of citizens in Fayetteville want.
Excuse me, but we are talking about the 1% sales tax vote, or did you forget? I’m not going to get into national policy on this forum.
If we support this tax, can we get rid of BBBBBBBQ? That’s a quality of life issues right hurrr….
HMMMM. How about a permit system? That way the people that want to use the NEW trails and parks can pay for the trails and parks like they pay for preferred parking or the transit (I’ve never been on the transit, I assume there is a fee) and the people that want to take the established routes (roads and sidewalks) that is already paid for with their previous years of taxes can do that. That’s what I love about toll roads, pay per use, no taxes. Everyone is happy except for those greedy politicians.
I like that idea, Ralph. :) Let those people who actually use the trail system pay for it!
That is a capitol notion: I use the trail system way more than I use the War in Afganistan, the Occupation of Iraq, and the War on Drugs. I’d like to pay for trails and the Federal School Lunch Program and public libraries. Sadly, since I don’t support our current military efforts and bank bail-outs I suppose those concerns will have to find their own enthusiasts.
But you’re missing my point…… you’re mixing Necessities with NON-Necessities. You’re also talking about Federal programs along with local city projects. This tax has nothing to do with the war or any Federal spending, although I understand what your point is.
Bianca,
Don’t let david get to you this is his life, arguing on the flyer. Instead of building new trails let’s fix the ones we got.
Thanks, Bill, I don’t let people like David Franks get to me, because they will always say that a person is wrong if that person doesn’t agree with them. It does no good to have a discussion with them. Is there ever a concept of keeping spending down rather than looking for ways to spend more? And, yes, I agree, we need to maintain the trails that we have already rather than SPENDING more to add more. Thank you for your comment.
@bianca
Actually, in the exchange you and David have had it seems that his retorts are well thought out points that defend his side of the argument very well. In comparison, you seem to have a problem presenting any valid points that add to the conversation while at the same time diminishing any real points the your side of the argument may have.
NO NAME – David argued that the trails were necessary. And he only wanted to argue that what I was against any city services, which is not true. I said that about 3 times! Now all you’re doing is arguing in favor of what David said, simply because you are in favor of what he said and against what I said. All I am saying is that we need to keep spending under control. Is that too much to ask?
you’re doing it again……..
And what is your argument, Mr. NO NAME? You only want to point fingers at me!
Besides, I don’t have time to type out a long retort to David’s retorts. I guess he has more time that I do.
still doing it …
There are other towns to live in, like Springdale or Greenland. If one does not see the speed table, one is probably driving too fast for the residential area, and walking on the trail in Fayetteville is a real good way to relieve all the stress of the unnecessary taxes.
You can make those trails into whatever you want, but I still say they are an UNnecessary expense! Why not put in sidewalks instead? Hmmmmm??? There are many roads in this town that don’t have sidewalks. Instead our illustrious city government decided to put in trails that go through only PART of the town and around Lake Fayetteville and to shopping from Butterfield Trail Village. How is that going to help me if I wanted to walk to work? But I’m sure you and your friends probably live near a trail so YES it would be good for you.
“In what way are speed tables “stupid”? They do exactly what they are supposed to do, and cost less than the police force that would accomplish the same thing.”
I speed my 2 ton SUV up as fast as I can to hit air when I see those asinine things. Is that what they are for?
I know that they make people speed up both before and after the tables to make up for the time lost hitting them; I also know that it slows emergency response vehicles down and jostles the bodies in the back up and down en route to the hospital.
So if creating fun for rednecks in SUV’s, endangering peoples lives before and after the tables with speeding cars, and slowing down emergency response vehicles while needlessly tossing critically injured folks like lottery balls is the goal, then SMASHING SUCCESS!!! Silly commies.
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Did it ever strike you micro managing ninny nanny stater centrist hyper control freaks that the job of government is to actually provide infrastructure, rather than control citizen activities?
Michael……. I know of people who do that exact thing when driving between those speed tables. A lot of good they do when you can speed up between them. LOL Also, it’s difficult to see them sometimes, especially when their reflective white paint has worn off (and NOT maintained) and the sign is hidden by branches of trees. I have hit one without knowing it was there, going only about 25 mph……. man, what a surprise!
Speaking of trails but no sidewalks, I think I saw one of those “bike lane” painted insignias on the side of a building, and another under a manhole cover.
It may just be me, but when I am driving down what used to be a functional street that has been destroyed in order to plant trees, tables, and curbs in it to control my driving; then I see a BIKE LANE insignia painted down the MIDDLE of the road, I giggle at the insanity. The I wonder “How did I get in the bike lane?” Then I remember that there really isn’t a bike lane, just a bunch of painted 10 speeds with Sergeant stripes painted under them in various and sundry locations to make left wingers feel like they’ve “done something” with my tax dollars.
Driving through the parking lot of Ozark Natural Foods looks like a game of Chutes and Ladders with it! Cracks me up.
When was the last time government tried to LOWER taxes rather than raise them? Why must government look for ways to SPEND money? They get a tax passed and it never goes away. Then the taxes just keep going up.
According to USA Today, in 2009 American paid the lowest tax rate since 1950.
You’re probably talking about INCOME taxes, not sales taxes. Every time you turn around, there’s another tax added on to our backs. I’m only trying to counteract the out of control spending we face everyday.
I meant to say out of control spending and taxation that we face everyday.
Bianca–
RE “You’re probably talking about INCOME taxes, not sales taxes.”
Even so, didn’t the state lower the sales tax on groceries a while back?
RE “Every time you turn around, there’s another tax added on to our backs.”
That’s irrelevant– this is not a new tax. And local taxes aren’t added without a vote; apparently a majority of people have more willing backs than you do.
You apparently have way more time than you think, Bianca, much to my chagrin. Maybe you should go for a hike on a trail.
That won’t help with anything. Besides, I don’t have TIME to walk on the trails. I’m too busy working against my taxes being raised by people like you!
Bianca–
RE “I’m too busy working against my taxes being raised by people like you!”
If whining online about being misunderstood, repeating poorly-stated arguments and erroneously claiming that your taxes are always being raised (also irrelevant, as this issue doesn’t increase a tax) constitutes work, then you’re doing a heckuva job.
I agree with you that the government needs to be careful with spending, regardless of the economy. I also agree that unnecessary expenses– whatever that means– should be cut. And when the time comes, I will argue the points much more clearly and effectively than you have here.
I’ve argued the best way I know, David. You don’t see it the same way that I do— you DON’T UNDERSTAND my viewpoint. I’m a CONSERVATIVE, David, so my viewpoint is one of CONSERVING money!
You only want to make me look stupid by saying that I don’t explain myself well enough. If you believed in limited government and expenses, you would understand exactly what I was saying. But all you know is spending and taxing people. I will NEVER stop trying to stop government from taking more money than they need for essentials.
RE “You only want to make me look stupid by saying that I don’t explain myself well enough.”
I have nothing to do with your looking stupid. If I wanted you to look stupid, I’d not encourage you to think before posting.
RE “If you believed in limited government and expenses, you would understand exactly what I was saying.”
And if you just want to preach to the choir, that’s fine. But if you wish to engage people who don’t share your beliefs and the unsophisticated code by which they are promulgated– and that appears to be your intention– then you need to do a better job of communicating with them.
RE “But all you know is spending and taxing people.”
A cliche like that doesn’t make you look any less stupid. You have no idea what I know, but I will tell you that I know better than to borrow and spend, which seems to be the conservative approach. (Oh, I know: Reagan and GWB weren’t really conservative.)
FOR THE LOVE OF God, Allah, Buddah, ect. ect.
Simple fact of the matter is….Get out there and vote!
while this incessant bitchfest, which has become oh so common on the Flyer, is hilarious to say the least, what good is it doing besides stroking fragile little egos?
You have no right to bitch if you don’t vote PERIOD.
Bianca – Did you realize you already pay this tax?
Also, did you realize that Arkansas is one of only 4 states isn’t operating in a deficit situation?
Why not continue to allow and support improvements here IN OUR STATE, for ARKANSANS?
Yes, I do know I already pay the tax. But what I’m saying is why can’t we cut back on that tax?
RE “But what I’m saying is why can’t we cut back on that tax?”
No, it isn’t. The problem here, I think, is that we can’t all hear the voices in your head, and you’re not posting what they’re saying.
OK, I just said it. There.
Thank you. Perhaps I will eventually goad you into presenting every aspect of the argument you intend to present.
Why do you hate minorities, the poor and old people? They will have to pay more in groceries, necessities, etc. and they won’t get to use the bike path because they can’t afford the bikes or are too infirm to use it. They won’t be able to heat their homes, eat, pay rent or have basic cable because YOU want a bike path! What makes you hate so much? This is some crap that rich people want and poor people and minorities can’t use. Just another establishment trick.
Hardcore Prog–
RE “They will have to pay more in groceries, necessities, etc. and they won’t get to use the bike path because they can’t afford the bikes or are too infirm to use it.”
Yes, a sales tax is regressive, but it also takes some of the burden off of locals, including the poor ones. What about poor people who can’t afford a car, and need a safe place to walk or ride a bicycle in order to get around? What about rich people who are too infirm to use the trails?
RE “This is some crap that rich people want and poor people and minorities can’t use.”
What? Minorities can’t use the trails?
Why do we argue for taxes by saying “It won’t kill businesses.”
That is just like a vampire discussing whether their bite will kill their victim, or merely weaken them a bit. Regardless of whether it kills business or just poisons them, there are other cities more than happy to take those businesses from the Fayetteville Coven.
Cracker Barrel, anyone?
While the vampires are weakening businesses in a horrendous economy, they are bragging that they are somehow keeping the victim alive. And they will be back. Trail today, led replacement tomorrow, personal methane scrubbers for pedestrians after that…
Vampire progtards never run out of “good” ideas to suck the life blood of their victims for. Except, of course, that many victims DO die, and the idiot ideas they come up with really aren’t that good.
ProgtardsBane–
Yet Forbes and Business Week keep telling the world that Fayetteville is a great place to start a business, raise a family, and so on.
RE “Trail today, led replacement tomorrow, personal methane scrubbers for pedestrians after that…”
The slippery-slope argument about government regulation is irrelevant.
Next time you start to post about taxes, jerk your brain, not your knee.
Forbes and Businessweek are BINO’s, business in name only. At the end of the day, they are part of the progressive machinery, and the progtards have gotten editorial control of those as well, and as usual, the less liberty, the higher the ranking of places to live.
And it isn’t a slippery slope argument when you can look to San Francisco or France or Denmark or… any Eurotrash wasted nation suffering under nanny ninny government micromanagement of their lives to see where you are headed.
You might say “What baby? We are only talking about a conceived cell here!” But pregnant is pregnant!
So while you might be able to call it a ‘slippery slope,’ I call it ‘birth.’
Prog, I think I speak for everyone here (except, of course, you and Beyonce), when I ask: What in the hell are you talking about?
ProgtardsBane–
You give yourself too little credit with your pseudonym. You are the bane of all germane, reasoned blog interaction.
I guess AllGermaneReasonedBlogInteractionsBane is too long for blog software, though. You could use ProgsBaneTard. It wouldn’t be as accurate, but it’s more accurate than your current one.
Perhaps my memory is poor, but I thought that Cracker Barrel’s departure was due to our sign ordinance. Wasn’t our town supposed to dry up and blow away soon after due to the subsequent mass business exodus?
Which is just a nicer way of saying, “The Cracker Barrel argument? Really?”
Every time innarested Observer writes, I just hear bong bubbles. Is this a known Vista issue?
“Bianca says:
October 6, 2011 at 10:52 am Besides, I don’t have time to type out a long retort to David’s retorts. I guess he has more time that I do.”
Judging by the number of comments you’ve continued to make after that I, again, suggest you do have way more time than you think. If you think that regurgitating nonsensical inconsistent ramblings on the Fayetteville Flyer site is going to help your efforts in having this pass then you really need to get out and take in some fresh air for your brain. Or carry on and don’t let facts and logic stop you.
Just voted for it. Who’s vote did i cancel out?