Mayoral candidate Dan Coody points to an area on West Avenue that he believes could be reconfigured to allow for on-street parking Thursday afternoon. Coody has been driving local reporters and editors through the area this week to point out suggested changes to the current paid parking program.
Photo: Todd Gill, Flyer staff
Dan Coody took another shot at the city’s paid parking program and planned downtown parking deck Thursday during a news conference and media tour of the Dickson Street area.
It’s the second attempt to gain public support over the issue by the former Fayetteville mayor who recently announced plans to challenge Mayor Lioneld Jordan in the Nov. 6 general election. Coody organized a meeting at the Fayetteville Public Library last month where a reported 50 people showed up to discuss the downtown parking situation.
“People understand that you have to pay to park. That’s not a big deal. We’ve been doing it all our lives,” said Coody on Thursday. “It’s the system that we have in place that’s overly confusing, it’s overly aggressive and it causes more problems than it solves.”
The two-year-old paid parking program was unanimously approved by the City Council in June 2010 in an effort to generate revenue to build a downtown parking deck.
The city plans to finance the deck with up to $6.5 million in bonds which will be repaid using money from paid parking fees and fines over the next 25 years.
The “Theater Lot” at the corner of Spring Street and School Avenue is one of two possible remaining locations for a planned downtown parking deck.
Photo: Todd Gill
Coody said he believes paid parking has given Fayetteville’s brand a “black eye” and that if plans for the parking deck take one more step forward, there will be no turning back.
“The thing that scares me the most is the fact that the City Council has given the mayor the authority to sell the bonds,” said Coody. “If they sell those bonds, then we will be locked in to writing tickets and charging fees for the next 25 years.”
Jordan was in Hot Springs Thursday for the Arkansas Municipal League’s annual conference, but has said no bonds would be issued until the City Council first approves a location for the parking deck. City staff are currently studying at least two deck sites and are expected to soon make a formal location recommendation to the council.
Coody took aim at the city’s persistent push toward building a parking deck – especially now that Walton Arts center officials have announced that planned 2,200-seat and 600-seat theaters will be built in Bentonville and on the University of Arkansas campus instead of the Dickson Street area.
“They’re using studies that said we’d need a parking garage when those things were complete, but none of that is going to happen,” he said.
Jordan’s staff have defended that platform and maintain that there’s still a need for parking.
Jurgens explains the pros and cons of building a deck at the WAC Lot during a public location tour earlier this year.
Photo: Todd Gill
David Jurgens, project manager for the planned parking deck, recently said that in 2011, there were 208 days times in which city-owned lots around Dickson Street were completely full.
Still, Coody says putting the process on hold and reopening the issue to public input will allow for what he believes is a much-needed reevaluation of the program as a whole.
Citing data provided by the city’s parking department, Coody said he believed the over 22,000 tickets that have been issued in the entertainment district since 2010 are an indication that the need for a change is at least debatable.
He suggested several tweaks to the parking program including construction of more on-street parking which could help reduce the size of – or the need for – a downtown parking deck. Other ideas were to add meters at each on-street parking space in addition to the street corner kiosks to create a more convenient payment option, and improving sidewalks to encourage residents to walk to the Dickson Street area.
“Is that the best way to do it? I don’t know, but that’s when you call in professionals and have a big public meeting,” he said.
Jordan and his staff have on many occasions defended the steps taken to develop the paid parking program into what it is today. They have oftentimes pointed to a series of 16 public meetings and City Council sessions in which residents were given the opportunity to weigh in on the program and suggest changes, some of which were implemented by the council after six months of studying the new system.
Coody said while he understands the city’s administration is under no obligation to reopen the paid parking debate, he’s hoping for “a change of heart” by either Mayor Jordan or any of the eight council members who voted to adopt the program and the issuance of bonds.
“We just keep moving ahead,” he said. “And soon it will be too late.”
Coody and Jordan are so far the only announced candidates for the office. Jordan announced his re-election bid in March. Coody, who lost the 2008 runoff election to Jordan after eight years as mayor, launched his campaign in May.
The filing period for mayor and other municipal offices begins July 27.
Oh yeah, Mr. Coody is an expert on traffic and parking, those speed bumps and traffic circles near Wilson Park are awesome. And I guess he’s an expert on branding, too bad he doesn’t have any data to support his claims. And I guess he hasn’t noticed that the areas with paid parking aren’t exactly declining economically.
I wouldn’t expect Mr. Coody to have anything good to say about anything Mayor Jordan has done since Jordan beat him in the last election. Coody was not a gracious loser, and that is not his style.
Mr. Coody was in the difficult position of continuing to want Fayetteville to be better, despite having been shown the door. As citizen/ex-mayor, his efforts and opinions have been seen largely as meddling or sour grapes, I think some less-fortunate aspects of his personality– or, possibly, his persona– have heightened that impression. Now that he is campaigning again, these less-fortunate aspects are returning to the fore.
I wish that Mr. Coody’s ideas for improving Fayetteville offered during the last three-and-a-half years had seemed less like entries in a pissing match. Some of them are good ideas. It might well have been the case that a cooperative spirit was not forthcoming from either side, but I think some appearance of helpfulness would have made his ideas more appealing.
The Circles in Wilson park were not my doing. Do some research. I’m glad you like the parking program as it is. I just see room to improve downtown and save money and help businesses. You are welcome to direct your animosity toward my personality, but I hope that there will be some people out there who want to debate the issue.
The Wilson Park traffic circles? If you really do want to do a touch of homework you may be surprised to see who put that in the bond issue along with the 4 speed tables and median on Gregg. It’s all public record.
Did you mean to comment twice regarding the traffic circles? Also, instead of directing people to go out and do some research, why don’t you just up and say who /is/ responsible if not you. You speak as if you know the answer, so why not share it?
Fair enough. Don Marr. Approved by Lioneld Jordan, chair of the street committee.
Speed tables are one thing MrCoody has nothing to apologize for. People in the neighborhoods that have them are very happy that traffic has been forced to slow down. I am sorry to hear that hybrids are so susceptible to bottoming out on them though. A cruel irony.
At the end of this week parking tickets issued for our small downtown over the past 22 months will top 34,000. I’m flattered, but why is my flawed personality more interesting to you than that?
Isn’t the revenue generated from fines a good thing for the city? It is better than parking in one of the private paid parking lots around Dickson that has your car towed shortly after your time has expired.
I am at a loss to understand why there is such a problem with kiosks. I have been paying for parking through kiosks in many US and foreign cities for years. It is hard to believe that folks in Fayetteville can’t figure it out. It is very common to pay for parking through kiosks.
Dan Coody has some good suggestions that I think should be considered. Additional on street parking is a good idea. An analysis of how much more parking is needed now that Walton is not expanding is a good idea.
I visit Dickson street several times a week. Parking fills up during the weekend. Seems like the city can use the money and there is no evidence that business has been harmed. There were some poor quality restaurants that went under. They blamed it on the parking.
This is an interesting subject and will generate much conversation. I think the city will benefit. Thanks to Dan Coody for generating this conversation.
There are several problems with the kiosks, will be happy to enlighten.
1. There are no language options. It only works in text (no graphics), and in English. We host many international business visitors, and twice I have had to travel to a kiosk to help someone pay for their parking ticket because they can’t use the system. This is extremely unfriendly to tourist dollars.
2. Payment methods are limited and inconvenient. The system does not take American Express and several other forms of payment, and many business travelers continuously complain. I had one executive from a very large electronics company request that we no longer go to Dickson Street for business dinners because of this. Since we host several large group events a year, this is a significant loss to businesses on Dickson.
3. The system doesn’t work. We paid $1 million dollars for a system that sucks so bad at efficiently processing payments that we have to have people stand out in the parking lot and collect cash only during WAC events. This is beyond ludicrous, it completely undermines the purpose of the system in the first place.
RE “I’m flattered, but why is my flawed personality more interesting to you than that?”
In case you directed that question to me: because I’ve never had a problem with the paid parking, but I have a problem with your post-2008 persona. I understand that you want what is good for Fayetteville, but nowadays that seems to be secondary to being good for Dan Coody. I like the other Dan Coody: the one I encouraged to run for mayor the first time; the one I voted for in 1992.
I think you’re a good person, but then I have to look at the Dan Coody who is running for mayor.
Mr. Coody, these are interesting facts, but once again you have failed to provide context. Knowing numbers like this is not useful if the numbers are provided in a vacuum. For an accurate assessment, we require some form of comparison.
I did read the article in the paper about our relative enforcement hours, but I’m not sure that is the best metric for comparison either. Because we as citizens are tasked with selecting between two candidates, if there was relevant data available for both administrations, it would be more useful to us in our decision.
Fortunately, such data exists, and I am hoping you or the Flyer will get it and publish it here. The parking program is dividing into two districts: the downtown parking district and the entertainment district. The program in the downtown district has been around for a while and was enforced by your administration. What are the annual enforcement numbers there, and how does your historical enforcement activity compare to Jordan’s for the same district?
I believe such a comparison would tell us a lot more than the raw data you have provided.
Mr. Coody – has there been any poles or research on the public feedback regarding the paid parking? What about the economic situation? As a person who relocated from Chicago to Fayetteville last year I don’t mind the parking, think its very reasonable, and understand it is our civic duty to help support our community. I also have seen what seems to the naked eye progress on Dickson street with new businesses. I don’t necessarily disagree with some of your opinions but need a better understanding of your concern and your direction.
Best of luck.
Welcome to town, JZU! Compared to Chicago, I can see why this parking program seems a piece of cake. If you were moving here from Fort Collins, CO. or Columbia, MO., you might think it is pretty aggressive for a town our size.
My concern is that this program is too out of scale for Fayetteville, and it still will not produce enough money to build a parking deck that will meet our design guidelines. The mayor was ready to sell bonds for a deck last November before any site analysis had been done, or any architectural renderings or real cost projections were submitted.. It makes me very uncomfortable for public money to be spent in this way, We developed a master plan for downtown seven years ago and it was totally ignored when Block Ave. was overhauled. I think there is very little regard for our design guidelines and that is a real problem.
There is plenty of parking downtown, we just aren’t making it easy to access. In 2005, our first priority was to have a “superbly walkable downtown”. None of this parking revenue is planned to be spent on pedestrian access and safety. I agree that we need to support our community. That is why I think it would be much more appropriate to fund the Walton Arts Center arts education program from the City’s general fund money, not parking fines and fees. If we would just follow the downtown master plan and build more on-street parking (there is room for 55 spaces right by the WAC) and improve the condition of the sidewalks, add street lights and trees, more people would feel comfortable walking. Almost all the parking lots a few blocks off Dickson are empty after 5 and we could run electric shuttles to them 2 or 3 nights a week. These simple things could be done immediately. and they are inexpensive compared to a parking deck.
We will build a deck eventually, but we need to make sure we have the funds to do it right and we have the private sector partners on board to build the liner buildings. We also need to have a plan for a unique public space around the art center and the garage. We haven’t put the effort into that and if we sell bonds before we do, we will be missing a great opportunity to make our downtown better than ever.
RE “We also need to have a plan for a unique public space around the art center and the garage.”
I somehow got the impression that this would be the topic of discussion in your meeting at the library a while back. Instead, it was largely a bunch of complaints about the paid parking system, fed to the consultants and professionally presented.
I work on Dickson and don’t mind the paid parking. It’s a small price to pay for the improvements I have seen made. It’s going to be a long campaign season… ick.
Hey, Denise, I am glad you don’t mind the parking. Many folks just don’t go to Dickson any more because of it. It should be good for everyone. BTW, what improvements have you seen on Dickson since the parking kiosks went in? Thanks for the input. And if you think it’s going to be a long campaign, try being a candidate! Yikes, for sure!
What is inconvenient is there is no stopping and running in someplace for 15 minutes. No calling isn’t convenient. I don’t mind tossing a quarter in a meter or whatever coin necessary but I don’t like the hassel of hunting down and waiting to pay somewhere.
The other thing that irks me is that the City is quick to fine for shortage of rented time in a space but if some left early you can’t tell and then then space is collecting 2 times the going rent.
The biggest mistake will be a blowing chance to put public gathering , green space in the spiritual center of this town.This could be the last generation to take advantage of this for a while.
RE “The biggest mistake will be a blowing chance to put public gathering , green space in the spiritual center of this town.”
Are you saying the Square isn’t the spiritual center of Fayetteville?
Yes, that is what I am saying.The is no open air green space on the square nor will there ever be one. On Dickson you have the confluence of roads, trails a creek (covered by pavement), rail . It ties the University to the square. It is the aorta of the body and soul of this town. When the Hogs beat Tennessee they brought the goalpost to Dickson not the square. The square is a most beautiful place since has been beautified, but I believe that the space on Dickson between George’s and the Walton Art Center has incredible opportunity to be the jewel of the city and the envy of other towns that would love to have the opportunity to work with.
+1
Bingo!
Mr. Coody – when you say many folks how many are we talking about here? 20 – 100 – 1000? Depending on the number we can measure an ROI for this. One flyer member was right in saying some cruddy places have gone by the waist side but better places are coming in for example Farrell’s, the new Arsagas (looks awesome by the way), and the other new businesses which I don’t frequent like Chipotle, Orange Leaf, an more upscale nightclub in Fix and even the Piano Bar is coming back. I’m very interested in what the data says.
All good points though. Thanks for all the insightful conversation.
5% come more often
49% come less often
46% no change
Oh, do tell! Will you share the details of your poll? I suspect a distinctly unscientific, statistically invalid bunch of pull-from-the-air Coodyism in that one. Interesting that the other front page story today, besides the alleged horrors of Dickson’s parking, is the sustained increases in H&R taxes. Doesn’t add up to the problems you profess.
The poll was conducted by a national polling firm.
From the city’s 2012 budget document,
The HMR tax revenue is up only 5% over 2008 revenue. That is an average of 1.25 % a year. That is less than the inflation rate from 2008 through May of 2012, an average of just over 2%. per year. Perhaps you should work to convince local business owners that everything is fine.
Oh please. Since 2008 there have been mountains of economic issues having nothing whatsoever to do with paid parking. Take a look at Farrell’s expansion, 21st Amendment’s new patio, Dickson Street liquor’s expansion, the new Soul Yoga, not to mention themes Arsaga’s and Dickson Social Club. Yes Dan, paid parking is just killing business on Dickson. These merchants who are opening or expanding must not know what the heck they’re doing.
And what national firm did the poll? Where have those details been published?
Oh Puleze, do you really expect him to share polling results he paid for with you? You are obviously a Lioneld supporter, how about you ask Lioneld to publish his polling results too?!? They should be finished any day now with his second one. Of course he is still denying the first one. I can’t wait to hear what people prefer, sidewalks, trails, roads or transits. Maybe he will tell us if people want a trolly to the mall. I can’t wait!!!!
I would expect Mr. Coody to share information about and results of polling if he is going to use them to build a campaign issue.
I appreciate Mr. Coody’s addressing questions here– apparently more than some of his supporters appreciate questions being asked.
@curious – the poll was Coody’s, or rather, “his supporters.”
http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2012/may/08/coody-enters-fayetteville-mayors-race/?latest
Mr. Coody, with all due respect, this perspective on the data is incorrect. I do not mean to say that the numbers are not accurate, but you have failed to provide meaningful context. The question of economic health is a complicated one, and an assessment of any Mayor’s economic effect is not one that can be measured through a simple comparison to inflation. In fact, Mayors have very little effect on the economy.
The proof is in the historical data. Fayetteville experienced tremendous growth in the past. Under Fred Hannah’s leadership, Fayetteville’s economic growth approached double digits. Under Fred Vorsanger’s leadership, the same was true. And again, under your leadership. Yet we can all agree that your social and development policies were much different; so why wasn’t your growth rate different?
The answer is that when a Mayor’s policies are compared with the effect other economic factors have on growth, a Mayor has relatively little effect on his community’s economy (which is not to say that policies aren’t important, only that they don’t create the big swings you purport them to create). I would wager that the fallout in small business lending, capital lending, and the decisions of businesses and institutions to postpone projects because of that fallout, had far more to do with the economic growth, or lack of it, from 2009 to the end of 2010 (when tax revenues began climbing again).
A much more contextual measurement of a Mayor’s economic performance is to examine the relative growth in a competitive environment. And as I understand it, Fayetteville performed exceptionally well relative to peer cities. However, I have not examined the relevant data in detail. I don’t have an ax to grind, so if you were to provide data to the contrary I would be all-ears. I am merely pointing out that your use of these numbers lacks context and is potentially misleading.
The HMR receipts reported in the Fayetteville Flyer on Monday show a picture quite at odds with Mr. Coody’s version posted on Saturday. Looking at the A&P official report on the first five months of 2012 and comparing with the first five months of 2008, it appears that there has been a significant increase. Who to believe?
http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2012/06/25/hmr-sales-tax-receipts-on-the-rise-in-2012/
To Mr Dooley, We were using the 2012 budget document. http://www.accessfayetteville.org/government/budget/documents/annual_budget/2012_PROPOSED_BUDGET_WEB_VERSION.pdf The numbers for 2012 are higher than they projected in the budget.. I still think the impact of inflation should be considered.
Mr. Coody, thanks for your explanation. It looks like the city underestimated revenue collections, as did you in your projections, but that is better than overestimating revenues or anything else. BTW, I love the use of the Royal WE and so regret its infrequent use these days. “L’état, c’est moi.”
I applaud Mr. Coody for making an attempt to bring data into the conversation. I have lurked on the Flyer for a long time but I feel it is time to bring my expertise to the conversation. As a statistician I know that numbers can be useful but almost never tell the whole story. Please allow me the opportunity contextualize these results.
If 49% of respondents don’t visit Dickson as often, do they make up the difference in other areas of town, or do they stay home more often? As many have pointed out, the HMR tax revenues of Dickson St have been increasing and there has been rapid business development, so it seems clear that Dickson is not under threat of death. The real question is if that money left Fayetteville or shifted to another location.
If it shifted, Mr. Coody owes it to us to explain why he favors growth in the Dickson St area over growth in other areas of town. If it left Fayetteville completely, then Jordan and the Council owe us some changes to the parking program.
It seems our former Mayor’s agenda is more about getting his name in the paper than about improving our community. HIs comments usually start with “I” rather than “we”. Fayetteville is a “we” town.
I Agree. Although I voted for him in the past, I think he’s become bitter and self absorbed. The team player aspect seems to be missing from the equation.
I’d rather have a leader who has an opinion. If you don’t then you get design by committee i.e. Block Avenue.
On the other hand, a committee usually has more opinions than an individual. Opinion isn’t everything, especially when the person with the opinion isn’t the person doing the actual work.
You still can’t be proud of Block Avenue or are you?
But you can’t be pleased with the Block Street design or are you?
I haven’t driven on Block Avenue much since it was redesigned, but I’ve had no problems with it. Still goes up the hill between buildings, like always. Parking is interesting, but since I pay attention when I drive, it’s not a problem, either. I like the idea of back-in parking, and have no reason to dislike the actuality. Block Street serves me at leastas well as ever as a driver, and better as a pedestrian, than it used to. I guess that means I like it. Maybe it’s not as much of a camel as you think it is.
Since part of the “committee” that designed Block Street was store and building owners with a greater practical stake in it than I have, and the design is in part a direct result of their input, I have no reason to complain.
Why do you ask– repeatedly?
To try to unnderstand your point of view.
If paid parking is killing Dickson Street business why are tax revenues up so much? Why are there so many news businesses or expansions of business on Dickson.
I take it you are not a business owner in the downtown area. The turnover rate on the Dickson area has always been extremely high, it always is in an entertainment district. Old businesses close, new ones reopen. Which is why there are so many “new” businesses. Turnover is not economic expansion.
Also a lot of credit is due the long term business owners in the area. They have really buckled down and made lemons out of lemonade. The recovering economy and steadily increasing total student population has helped as well. The only business paid parking has “helped” is the WAC, because the WAC is the only business deemed important enough to share in the revenue from the parking system.
But when any “new” business opens, obviously the owners give very serious consideration to location and the associated costs of operating in that location. The point is, paid parking is NOT killing business in the entertainment district, which was Coody’s basic argument.
Yet Joe Fennel has bought back into Jose’s, and they have undertaken major renovations– paid parking and all. The owners of Willy D’s operate Fix Ultra Lounge in the old Willy D’s location, and continue to maintain that they will reopen Willy D’s in a larger space on Dickson. They’ve never blamed paid parking for the delay, even though, if it were a problem for them, they could probably gain some sympathy by carping about it.
They probably could, but smart business owners don’t complain, they get to work. Also, please note that these are long term business owners, they are folks that really know what they’re doing. Its the little guys that get picked off first, and we’ve seen that happen what, 3-4 times in the bars behind Chipotle? I would expect that pushes the clientele up to the more established venues.
Either way, its impossible to pin the entire economic environment of the downtown area on what is essentially a tax on visiting consumers. I think its irresponsible to say “paid parking is going to end Dickson” just as it is to say “paid parking is no problem because some businesses are growing.” There are larger economic factors at work (such as influx of students and recovering economy as mentioned above), but I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find any business owners down there who think it has helped. Maybe pushed a few people to Bordino’s and Theo’s valet? Can’t think of anything else.
It isn’t all about the money. The paid parking is inconvenient in paying . (see my post above). My fear is that the current mayor and his chief of staff redesigned Block Avenue. To me that design is horrible, but if it is your cup of tea, so be it. I’m afraid that a parking deck built by this same administration could be as unappealing aesthetically and difficult to use I find Block Avenue is now. Of course Dennis, Frustrated by Ex Mayor and Confused you can pound your chest about how proud you are of Block Avenue and the present paid parking system and I’ll be all ears. But I’m frustrated with the way things are now.
RE “[Dickson Street] is the aorta of the body and soul of this town. When the Hogs beat Tennessee they brought the goalpost to Dickson not the square.”
And when Arkansas beat Texas in 1981, bonfires were lit in the street, as I recall. Spirit and spirits center, perhaps, or pivot, or possibly center of gravity, but being the Dionysian center of Fayetteville doesn’t make Dickson Street the spiritual center of everybody’s Fayetteville: some of us have a more Apollonian bent.
RE “I believe that the space on Dickson between George’s and the Walton Art Center has incredible opportunity to be the jewel of the city”
I don’t disagree that the WAC parking lot offers a tremendous opportunity for a public space– indeed, I joined the protest with Frank Sharp to keep the whole area from being turned into a parking lot in 1991. (Mayor Vorsanger called in the bulldozers at seven o’clock one Saturday morning in order to do an end run around the concerned citizens.)
But to be a great jewel among the many gems that make up Fayetteville, and to deserve that prime location, whatever happens at that location must be a truly stunning achievement. I also am of the opinion that putting a parking garage there as well doesn’t preclude its being a unique public gathering– and being– space.
Not the same thing, but inspirational: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_G%C3%BCell and http://tinyurl.com/7vpjr98 and note particularly the main terrace on top of the market space and the colonnaded terrace perimeters. There are parking garage configurations that would allow extra parking capacity to serve as space for farmers’ markets and craft fairs, or messy creative space for artists with adjacent studios. Put retail on the street, office, residential and work space on the perimeter. Make the whole thing a sort of ziggurat with a two-to-three-story street front rising to a sixth-level roof garden in the middle, with patios and gardens on the lower roofs as well. Stepped massing would lessen the effect on the street but take advantage of the fact that the site is in a valley.
Hear, hear!
Mr. Coody
Please leave the city alone. If this parking issue was so important to you where have you been all this time? Public meetings have been plentiful. Shamelessly now you want to use this as a topic to spearhead your campaign. You have been described from many of your own supporters as petty, please prove them wrong and commend the city staff on what they have done and say this, “i am proud of the work that city staff has done but I believe I can be a better leader”. Quit, telling everyone what you did and then only take credit for the positive things. You have spoken positively about the traffic calming measures around Wilson Park but now because one person spoke out about them, you throw Marr and Jordan under the bus. Be true and dont be like every other politician and talk out both sides of your mouth. Unfortunately Mayor Jordan beat you in the last election, man up to it and run a positive campaign because im certain you ripping the decisions of the council and city staff are not constructive to any type of future relationship. Im still waiting on your attacks on public safety fot bankrupting the city again. The city is fine without your menacing so go back to your green house and put a sock in it.
Seriously, slowing down traffic near Wilson Park was a good thing but total success on how it was accomplished can’t be claimed. The speed bumps were all built to the same height so they’re supposed to be equal but anybody who drives in that neighborhood knows that some must be approached more slowly than others. I don’t have any problems with Block St. but I believe anybody who complains about that and doesn’t have issues with the circles on Woolsey and Vandeventner is disingenuous.
When Mr. Coody blamed Jordan and Marr for Wilson Park traffic calming he was doing what’s become standard- not accept responsibility for any failures of his administration.
RE “I believe anybody who complains about [Block Street] and doesn’t have issues with the circles on Woolsey and Vandeventner is disingenuous.”
I’m not sure why that must be true. They are entirely different kinds of street projects with different purposes, and there’s no reason to believe that they must be equally successful, even if that could be measured with any precision.
“David Jurgens, project manager for the planned parking deck, recently said that in 2011, there were 208 days in which city-owned lots around Dickson Street were completely full.”
Please contact Mr. Jurgens, and he will verify that his statement is incorrect. There were 208 days in which the city owned lots had as many daily users as they have spaces. This is not the same thing as”completely full”.
Staff note: Also, and for what it’s worth, after listening to the recording of the June 4 Town Hall Meeting again, it’s clear he actually said 208 “times” and not 208 days. Here is the exact quote: “In 2011, existing parking facilities in – city owned existing parking facilities in – the downtown and Dickson area were filled 208 times in the year 2011. So there’s a need right now for us to have more parking.”
Sorry for the double post, but this kind of misinformation really hacks me off. Also notice the use of the term “city-owned” in that statement. Private parking (of which there are many options, including three private decks in the downtown Dickson area with another on the way) is completely discounted, which is just silly and sets the city on a path to compete with private owners. At no point in the past year did the Dickson area hit full parking capacity other than Bikes, Blues, and BBQ.
This is NOT about alleviating a non-existent “parking problem” on Dickson. The purpose of this deck is twofold: 1. WAC doesn’t want their patrons to have to walk a block, and 2. Parking Revenue.
One last clarification, and I swear I’ll stop abusing the comments system. The above statement was not aimed at the quality of journalism and reporting, it was aimed at Mr. Jurgens and his comment. If you do any follow up stories (i’m sure there will be), I request that the Flyer asks him to clarify the statement. Why doesn’t he include curb parking and in this statistic? How is he determining a lot is “filled”? Why is private parking discounted? etc.
As a general rule, though we disagree on various points, I hardly consider your comments to be an abuse of the system, and the Flyer apparently doesn’t, either. Keep at it.
Some of the information you’ve asked for might well be on the City of Fayetteville web site. Have you checked?
I asked about the “full 208 days” comment. Sharon Waters told me this: In March and April, the staff surveyed the public parking spaces all day for five days, twice. If the public spaces reached 90% capacity at any time during those 10 days it was considered “full”. They extrapolated those 10 days into a year. To actually be “full” for 208 days, that means the spaces are at 90% capacity at some point for every Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, every week for the year, including the summer. 4×52=208.
BTW, I have all the respect in the world for Sharon. She has been good at every job she has been given.
I surveyed the average height of American basketball players and extrapolated this to the whole US. Apparently, Americans are the tallest people in the world. Statistics are fun …
A more accurate extrapolation would be to survey the professional basketball players who participate in the first five or six games of the season, and from that information determine that those players would play all the way to the end of the season. It’s not the height of the players that would be at issue, it is the fact that they are playing basketball.
That was my point – extrapolations from a very limited data set to determine wide-ranging implications is not a very good idea. I think you meant that your survey would be a more accurate comparison to the parking issue, which is probably true, but even that extrapolation is highly inaccurate.
But you went outside the limited data set for your extrapolation; the city used the limited data set. If you want to make a valid point, don’t pretend that a preposterous analogy is relevant.
By its very definition, extrapolation goes outside the limited data set. I will let Steven Colbert know that making preposterous analogies to make a point is not a relevant approach. The great and mighty Franks has spoken.
The fact that it is possible to make absurd and irrelevant extrapolations does not mean that extrapolation cannot be a valid, useful tool in the hands of people who know something about using it properly. (This does not assume that the city’s extrapolation is necessarily a good one; it simply points out that extrapolation should not be rejected out of hand.) As this is already a contentious issue, and the thread had already become convoluted, I thought I’d point that out, lest some easily-misled readers take your snarky post to be a real contribution to the conversation.
Firstly, it is irresponsible to release data without releasing information on how it was obtained. Secondly, there’s not even close to enough information here to extrapolate to a full year, and there’s all kinds of problems with variables like time of year, day of week, monitored capacity, etc. Lastly, what public spaces were surveyed? Just the WAC lot, or all of the curb spaces as well (as I recall there are far more curb spaces)? Why wasn’t private parking included in the survey?
I love mmueller’s idea about a green space in the Dickson Street area with a park like atmosphere. Perhaps a well planned parking deck would free up the space needed for such a place. The green space could even help disguise the utility of a parking structure. Imagine a flower garden down there the caliber of the Botanical Gardens or the Square.
I rather envision the Parking Gardens of Babylon. See my comment of Saturday, June 23, 2012 at 12:29 pm above.
I concur.
IF the parking decks are needed build two smaller low level decks. There is three different spaces . South of Grubb’s, south of the WAC offices or south of Kingfish. Rip the asphalt off current WAC parking lot (city property) and let the earth breathe again with its spring and creek and green areas.
More green space down around Dickson would be great. I like the idea of having more outdoor seating as well and rooftop access. It seems there might be a city coding issue here though. Where is the space right now for the green space? The WAC parking lot would be an ideal place, but again the parking becomes an issue. Lots of great ideas here. Too bad we all can’t attend every city panning meeting.
I too believe that greenspace, including shade trees and benches, would do wonders for business on Dickson. It would greatly increase the walkability and “hangoutability” on Dickson in the summertime. We just need to make sure and leave room for snocone stands. Lots of em!!!
A bit of greenspace, improved sidewalks, street lighting, added on-street parking spaces, public event space, shared streets for occasional pedestrian/event activity are all possible with a creative design and solid plan. And for a ton less than $10 million that is earmarked for just another parking garage.
First, if the public helps develop a concept, they will get behind it, then work out a good design, then figure the best way to finance the plan using both public and private money. If the naysayers ran Fayetteville, the trails, College enhancements, the Library, the rebuilt Square, Dickson street improvements, and more, would never have seen the light of day. If we can imagine it, we can do it.
“A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty.” It is very nice to see some optimists comment on the Flyer. Optimists Unite!
These are fantastic ideas! Does anyone know the cost of these proposals, or are we just playing make believe without a budget? Should we figure in a $63 million cost overrun, or will we create another successful TIF District?
Here is an interesting chapter on costs of parking of various types, considered in a number of ways: http://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca0504.pdf
Thanks, David. That is interesting info.
Taking a historic look at parking tickets and the public’s collective aggravation, it is clear that paying for parking and the tickets issued were not a big problem until lately. The more a ticket costs, the fewer tickets get issued. Case in point, when tickets downtown were $2. it was almost cheaper to pay the ticket than to plug the meter. According to city records, between 1998-2002, annual tickets issued averaged about 18,000. When the ticket price rose to $5 the annual average dropped to 13,500 from 2003 -2007 (the last year these records are online).. Even then there was not broad resentment of paid parking. The system was simple and the cost of tickets was more acceptable. income for the program basically covered costs. The system seemed fair.
When tickets jumped to $15. a couple of years ago the annual average dropped to 6,500. But it is the feeling people have that the system is rigged against them that irritates them. Many people feel that the fees and tickets are less for managing parking spaces and more for making a ton of dough.
You should have done this when you were in office, spending our tax dollars like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Now during this depressed economy we can’t afford some of these things because we are paying back the bucks you sucked out of reserves to go on trips and hire your buddies as outside consultants.
ha burn
Here’s the rub. People want “free” parking just like they want a free lunch, thinking anything free is better than paying for it, especially if someone else pays for it. Some think free parking is a right, and some politicians exploit this for their own electability.
The problem for realists and those who have the responsibility to govern is that free parking isn’t “free” and is a bad public policy. If you think it necessary to hire outside consultants instead of using common sense, you can give a contract to the leading authority, Dr. Donald Shoup, an economist and UCLA Professor of Urban Design. Short of that, you can buy his book, “The High Cost of Free Parking,” available in paperback for about $22. His argument: “In this book I show that “free” parking distorts transportation choices, debases
urban design, damages the economy, and degrades the environment.”
If you only want a small dose of wisdom on the issue, here is a link to an article a couple of years ago in the New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/business/economy/15view.html
Interesting food for thought.
When discussing the pricing for parking downtown, I think it would be fair to consider the public’s investment in building and maintaining the infrastructure that gets people to the free parking at the mall or big box store.
Extending multiple lanes of asphalt and miles of water and sewer lines to distant development costs the public much more than developing in the downtown area. The economic and environmental impact is obvious.
Also, we should compare property taxes per acre from dense urban development to sprawling suburban development. Last, but not least, is our shared desire to have a vibrant downtown since it is a part of Fayetteville’s unique identity.
“I think it would be fair to consider the public’s investment in building and maintaining the infrastructure that gets people to the free parking at the mall or big box store.” Yes, that is one of the points Dr. Shoup makes in his book, that “free” parking is not free.
I’m not against paying for parking, I’m against where we are parking.
I’m not against anything. But the gov’t., with all due respect to Msrs. Coody & Jordan is the monkey in the middle. Bondholders must have their taxpayer-guaranteed income stream.
But must WE have another freakin’ parking deck?
If we must have a parking deck , build it elsewhere. Not in between the WAC and GML. Give that space back to the people.
I’m liking the fountain/plaza idea.
That space has never belonged to the people, at least in the way you suggest. I think that is the best location for a parking garage for addressing one of the disadvantages of centralized parking– travel from car to destination– as that site would cut at least a hundred yards off the average distance from car to destination. In conjunction with proper multipurpose wrapping, the garage itself can be part of a number of destinations, and its roof could serve as a park. (Why give all of the elevated views to condo owners– that is almost nobody, these days?) This would address the conflicts/inconsistencies of trying to pretend that the WAC parking lot is, or could pretend to be, an urban space without other related development.
That land is COF which is the people. And I think that is the worst location for a parking garage.
If the people already own the space, then how can it be “given back” to them? Legal ownership is one thing; popular ownership is another. As the area has never been a park– it was a burned out building, cement plant, scattered parking and wasteland for years before it became a lovely, organized parking lot– the city can’t really “give that space back to the people” in the sense that you appear to mean. Indeed, that phrase puts the area in a light that, intentionally or not, clouds the issue. As for giving that space to the people for the first time ever, there are a number of ways to do that, and simply turning part of it into a garden without additional development to actually create an urban space does not seem to me to be the best way to go about it.
In giving it to the people, I mean all people whatever their mode of transportation. The lot as it stands now is not pedestrian friendly and neither is a parking deck. When the largest crowds are expected in town it even isn’t used for parking.
IF we need a parking deck, I hope it’s thrown on top of Grubs instead of on top of the old lot, under the condition that the old lot is turned into something more attractive than parking. I completely agree with those saying that that space between George’s and WAC has so much potential to be fantastic public space.
Jose’s is rockin again. Parking problem???
They guys that renovated it obviously didn’t think so.
Lol, ask him about it.
The WAC lot needs some kind of big water feature or fountain. Days like today would be fun to jump in it.
Have you been to Lawrence Plaza up in Bentonville? It’s got water jets for the summer and they turn it into an ice rink in the winter.
Never been. I was thinking of a big fountain that just happens to be very open and unrestricted, like this one: http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/07/0728_purdue_school_tour/image/loebfount.jpg Public art.
There is a creek and natural spring suffocating below the asphalt between the WAC and GML. If turn into an open park area and the parks dept did half the job they do around the square and other areas it would look like Eden.
This town has so many lovely creeks and springs, wouldn’t it be great if they were cleaned up and integrated into
the aesthetic environment in a respectful sound way. Not ‘sun-shined’ which is a greenwash term that means stripping vegetation away and exposing waterways to the sun. Asphalting the spring under the WAC lot is symptomatic of a sort of mental illness–a pervasive one we fail to recognize for what it is.
amen
Lowering the plaza in front of the Walton Arts Center to street level would encourage visitors to walk through and hang out in the plaza. As it stand, the plaza might as well have a fence around it.
That would be a great location for the big people splash fountain.